Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

Guess who else was drafted due to speed without experience? APKE.
I do worry about us drafting based on speed, assuming we can coach em up. It didnt work with Apke.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

My bast guess with this roster now

FS Curl
SS Collins

But i would go nuclear option if Collins comes to camp and struggles in the preseason. No reason to halt someone growth and simply better player because of salary. That doesn’t fit the culture narrative here.

Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[QUOTE=EdmundDorf;1283460]You have that totally arse about face



FS Everett Reeves

SS Curl Collins



Forrest is a question mark. Had issues in coverage though is fast[/QUOTE]



Espn depth chart has it all fucked up.
But what if Collins steps back in at SS ? Move Curl to FS?
Maybe the depth chart isn’t fucked up. Maybe thats the plan?

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

I would worry about Curl as a FS. I could be wrong as he is still developing his abilities. I do know at college he started at CB and moved him to safety, I assume strong as he had a few sacks. Most orgs would not trust a strong safety to go one on one against the top WR down the middle, so I am assuming he was already vetted as not a fit at free safety, especially when the competition was far weaker there. This is why filks want collins to see time as a lb. It would keep curl at SS. I actually agree. I would want Boston FS, Curl SS. Collins at LB

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

Kicking the tires on McCain on Monday
[url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/5/6/22423991/washington-will-host-fs-bobby-mccain-for-a-free-agent-visit-on-monday[/url]

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

Forrest looks like a direct replacement for Apke, speed and ST demon. His advantage is that he may be good or at least competent on defense which Apke clearly is not. Apke is toast regardless of whether they sign another FS. Everett is also a ST captain. Both Boston and McCain are upgrades at FS but hard to see them releasing one of the other guys. It is a numbers game, a good one to have, I can't see them keeping more than 5 Safeties and from JDR comments it does not look like Collins is being considered to be jettisoned.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=punch it in;1283456]Curl is FS and absolutely starting. Collins is a SS. Everett and Reaves are SS too. We also just drafted Forrest who is a FS. I think Everett and Reaves are capable for this year if Collins shits the bed.[/quote]

Curl should not be FS. Collins is an in-box SS who is a murderous liability in coverage. I put Everett and Reaves at SS, even though they are technically FS, because they are not great in coverage. I think Reaves, though undersized, has decent athleticism speed and more just misreads, misdiagnoses, bites, or is overly aggressive. Forrest who knows, but have no real starting caliber FS on roster if Forrest doesn't flash. You can't fix entire team one year, this is definitely a priority position for upgrade next year.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=punch it in;1283382]Both grade out as starters in the league, and could wind up starting for us. Leno would definitely bring experience to a very important position. If they are cheap one year signings im all for it.[/quote]

I think Christian is toast. But we have Cosmi, Charles, Lucas, Moses. Interesting to ask where another T fits in, I don't see Charles being moved to G yet because they were high on him as T before injury. Nothing wrong with more competition on the cheap though. You never know who gets injured.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[QUOTE=Scalper;1283490]Curl should not be FS. Collins is an in-box SS who is a murderous liability in coverage. I put Everett and Reaves at SS, even though they are technically FS, because they are not great in coverage. I think Reaves, though undersized, has decent athleticism speed and more just misreads, misdiagnoses, bites, or is overly aggressive. Forrest who knows, but have no real starting caliber FS on roster if Forrest doesn't flash. You can't fix entire team one year, this is definitely a priority position for upgrade next year.[/QUOTE]

Hence we should be looking at the likes of McCain and Boston. Reaves did well when subbed in last season but it's a small sample size. Curl easily showed he could start at SS if Collins is out again or moved on (LB?), but he's not an FS. My ideal right now would be vet at FS backed up by Reaves and Forrest, Collins and Curl at SS. If we moved Colins, I'd go Curl and Everett at SS. I say Forrest right now because an FS can move down to SS in an emergency but I don't want a #3 SS as 3rd choice FS.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

If we sign McCain he will be our starting FS this year without a doubt

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

Based on WFT's actions in the past week, I think WFT isn't interested in signing Boston. Boston has been available ever since the beginning of FA and there's no news of WFT reaching out to Boston, and then we immediately asked McCain to visit us right after he was released.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

Weve been adding hybrid type players, RR uses the word "position flex", sports radio guys talk the emergence of "positionless" players on defense.

I wouldnt be surprised if they dont even use the term FS. Everett is the closest we have to a traditional FS but I imagine he gets maybe 50% or less of D snaps (injuries dictating play aside)

Collins, Curl, Fuller will be moved all around the field.

Curl will probably play 3rd CB on big nickel with big nickle being our most used package.

For the most part .. we schemed and masked our personnel weaknesses in the secondary last year. With our front 4 it makes it easier. Hopefully it continues in 2021.

edit - pretty sure i heard radio guys say the team talked to collins about LB but he said no.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

Good point. You could argue that traditional depth charts need re-thinking/writing. RB by committee alone makes the traditional depth chart a bit of a waste of time, At best it can only be used as a guide. Coaches are probably quite happy with it though, as it doesn't really give anything away about the packages we'll actually use.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

According to John Keim of ESPN, Washington is talking to Collins about switching positions.

“I initially dismissed [Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah] as a possible pick, even though I know they liked him in this range (19th pick overall). But I know they’re talking to Landon Collins about a move to the same position. … This potential move doesn’t take JOK off their list,” Keim stated during his podcast.

Collins initially shot down the idea of moving to linebacker on social media, saying “not happening…”

However, Washington head coach Ron Rivera had a much different tone earlier this month.

“That was Landon,” Rivera said. ““Our plan for Landon is to have him here, have him compete and have him be a part of what we’re doing going forward,” Rivera said.

[url]https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/washington_has_talked_to_landon_collins_about_moving_to_linebacker/s1_16457_34730234[/url]

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

JDR stated Collins is a SS and would be playing there

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=SunnySide;1283515]Weve been adding hybrid type players, RR uses the word "position flex", sports radio guys talk the emergence of "positionless" players on defense.

I wouldnt be surprised if they dont even use the term FS. Everett is the closest we have to a traditional FS but I imagine he gets maybe 50% or less of D snaps (injuries dictating play aside)

Collins, Curl, Fuller will be moved all around the field.

Curl will probably play 3rd CB on big nickel with big nickle being our most used package.

For the most part .. we schemed and masked our personnel weaknesses in the secondary last year. With our front 4 it makes it easier. Hopefully it continues in 2021.

edit - pretty sure i heard radio guys say the team talked to collins about LB but he said no.[/quote]

Makes sense. How often did we see a true 4-3 with 4 in the dirt?

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

Any word on MCCain or Leno signing or not with us .

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=GridIron26;1283511]Based on WFT's actions in the past week, I think WFT isn't interested in signing Boston. Boston has been available ever since the beginning of FA and there's no news of WFT reaching out to Boston, and then we immediately asked McCain to visit us right after he was released.[/quote]

I think Boston is a guy you don't have to rush to sign. He was a solid but not elite FS who has lost a step. We can't have known McCain would be released. I favor giving reps to younger players with upside, but the problem is we have lots of second string FS at best and no starter. McCain was once a CB I believe, is undersized, but seems to be a true center fielder FS. He's 27. If the price is right, could be a smart signing, but he isn't some world beater and may not be the long term answer. He has what Skins love, position flexibility, and a 1 or 2 year deal for $2-$4M per year might make sense. He would easily be best FS on our roster, but that isn't saying much.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=njant;1283553]Any word on MCCain or Leno signing or not with us .[/quote]

Leno and McCain both just met with the team yesterday, so we should know something soon. I hope we sign both.

[url]https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1391743446663278594[/url]

[url]https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1390441381685047296?s=20[/url]

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

I agree I think both will make us that much better especially McCain.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

Leno isnt that much of an upgrade at LT and may stunt the growth of our youth. McCain aint that great either, but a turd would be better than out free safeties. I bet we dont sign either

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=GridIron26;1283511]Based on WFT's actions in the past week, I think WFT isn't interested in signing Boston. Boston has been available ever since the beginning of FA and there's no news of WFT reaching out to Boston, and then we immediately asked McCain to visit us right after he was released.[/quote]

Could be.
McCain a much better player than Boston at this point.
With Curl, Collins, Reaves, Forrest, might be room for a 5th.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

Very disappointed looks like we are not going to sign McCain or Leno or both we could of really used them both especially McCain at FS

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[QUOTE=njant;1283637]Very disappointed looks like we are not going to sign McCain or Leno or both we could of really used them both especially McCain at FS[/QUOTE]Did something specific come out? I think we still may sign one or both. Since these contracts are usually not eye popping value, this part of free agency can take longer for contracts to get signed as players mull their options.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=SunnySide;1283515]Weve been adding hybrid type players, RR uses the word "position flex", sports radio guys talk the emergence of "positionless" players on defense.

I wouldnt be surprised if they dont even use the term FS. Everett is the closest we have to a traditional FS but I imagine he gets maybe 50% or less of D snaps (injuries dictating play aside)

Collins, Curl, Fuller will be moved all around the field.

Curl will probably play 3rd CB on big nickel with big nickle being our most used package.

For the most part .. we schemed and masked our personnel weaknesses in the secondary last year. With our front 4 it makes it easier. Hopefully it continues in 2021.

edit - pretty sure i heard radio guys say the team talked to collins about LB but he said no.[/quote]

Call it what you want, we need someone who can play deep center or deep half in passing situations.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

I agree 100%

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=njant;1283637]Very disappointed looks like we are not going to sign McCain or Leno or both we could of really used them both especially McCain at FS[/quote]

There has been no news either way that I've seen since their Monday visits..

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

The Washington Football has its left tackle: The WFT is signing former #Bears LT Charles Leno to a 1-year deal worth $5M, per
@SlavinRon
.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

Lucas probably not very happy.

[URL="https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/5/11/22430211/washington-offensive-tackle-cornelius-lucas-is-furious-with-the-media"]Washington Offensive Tackle Cornelius Lucas is Furious With the Media[/URL]

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

Lucas is good TBH

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

We're gonna fuck around and have a real nice offensive line. Love the depth.

Really hope it's a true competition so Lucas has his chance to retain his spot. He's earned that.

Either way, we have a legitimate swing tackle and a rookie in training.

How bout this Washington Fucking Football Team!?!? WFFT!!!!

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

I am honestly a little confused about this Leno signing honestly. I figured the T situation was Moses on the RT, and then it's a battle between Cosmi and Lucas for LT, with the other guy being the swing.

Now you get Leno - does it really improve you much over Lucas? It seems to be the end for Christian and Sharpe, which is a good thing. But we paid $5M here and I don't think the starting lineup got any better. Depth certainly did.

Seems we are setting up to have capable players deep at every position.

G is Scherff, Schweitzer, Charles, Flowers, all are capable or promising
T is Moses, Leno, Lucas, Cosmi all capable or promising
and C of course is Roullier

All of those guys can reasonably make a case for being a starter in this league with I guess Charles being the most questionable.

But if you weren't drafted or signed by Rivera and you play offensive line, you're in trouble.

Anyway, rambling post. Good depth move but $5M is a lot to not improve your starting lineup, so meh.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

We have some movable depth at tackle now. We get into camp and someone gets injured on another team, could move someone for a mid round pick

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=Schneed10;1283683]I am honestly a little confused about this Leno signing honestly. I figured the T situation was Moses on the RT, and then it's a battle between Cosmi and Lucas for LT, with the other guy being the swing.

Now you get Leno - does it really improve you much over Lucas? It seems to be the end for Christian and Sharpe, which is a good thing. But we paid $5M here and I don't think the starting lineup got any better. Depth certainly did.

Seems we are setting up to have capable players deep at every position.

G is Scherff, Schweitzer, Charles, Flowers, all are capable or promising
T is Moses, Leno, Lucas, Cosmi all capable or promising
and C of course is Roullier

All of those guys can reasonably make a case for being a starter in this league with I guess Charles being the most questionable.

But if you weren't drafted or signed by Rivera and you play offensive line, you're in trouble.

Anyway, rambling post. Good depth move but $5M is a lot to not improve your starting lineup, so meh.[/quote]

Kinda agree. I thought Lucas played fairly well last year.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=Schneed10;1283683]I am honestly a little confused about this Leno signing honestly. I figured the T situation was Moses on the RT, and then it's a battle between Cosmi and Lucas for LT, with the other guy being the swing.

Now you get Leno - does it really improve you much over Lucas? It seems to be the end for Christian and Sharpe, which is a good thing. But we paid $5M here and I don't think the starting lineup got any better. Depth certainly did.

Seems we are setting up to have capable players deep at every position.

G is Scherff, Schweitzer, Charles, Flowers, all are capable or promising
T is Moses, Leno, Lucas, Cosmi all capable or promising
and C of course is Roullier

All of those guys can reasonably make a case for being a starter in this league with I guess Charles being the most questionable.

But if you weren't drafted or signed by Rivera and you play offensive line, you're in trouble.

Anyway, rambling post. Good depth move but $5M is a lot to not improve your starting lineup, so meh.[/quote] c.Leno is the best OT on the team right now durable and pretty darn good still ,now we need to sign McCain at FS, Leno is definitely upgrade over Lucas

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=Chico23231;1283685]Kinda agree. I thought Lucas played fairly well last year.[/quote]

Yeah his pass blocking was quite strong, PFF had it in a good spot. I think he outranked Leno in PFF's grading.

Leno does have the one pro bowl to his name in 2018.

As long as Lucas gets a shot to win the job that I guess is all he can ask for and I believe Ron will give that a fair look.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

1 yr $5M is a prove it deal, based on his 2018 pro bowl form. If he can't unseat Lucas he's trade bait as Chico said. If he can Lucas is trade bait. Won't get a bundle for either but...

And with 24 starts across 4 teams in 7 seasons, Lucas has hardly earned the right to complain about the press.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

I believe the FO is taking advantage of the new cba which allows 46 active IF the extra players are OL, up to 8. Also with a 17 game season, and several OL guys "prone" to injury, Scherff - Moses are 2 notable ones, the extra bodies along the OL will prove to be one of the best moves of our off season.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=njant;1283686]c.Leno is the best OT on the team right now durable and pretty darn good still ,now we need to sign McCain at FS, Leno is definitely upgrade over Lucas[/quote]

Lucas in 536 snaps last year, 1 penalty and 2 sacks allowed. Overall grade from PFF of 78.2.

Leno 1066 snaps, 6 penalties, and 5 sacks allowed. I'll let you do the math and realize Lucas was better in both on a per-snap basis. Overall grade from PFF of 74.

I don't think you can say he's definitely an upgrade. You can say 'might be' an upgrade. But Lucas could just as easily beat him out.

Re: Post Draft Free agency targets
 

[quote=MTK;1283676]Lucas probably not very happy.

[URL="https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/5/11/22430211/washington-offensive-tackle-cornelius-lucas-is-furious-with-the-media"]Washington Offensive Tackle Cornelius Lucas is Furious With the Media[/URL][/quote]

Too bad.