Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

This isn't a Ron should go subject....

....but rather if he qualifies as a personnel man....

This whole thing with Ron Rivera having power over the front office is the key to the problems we see on the field. Martin Mayhew and Marty Hurney both are substandard personnel executives. This is one area where Rivera's at fault. Only proven and constant winning head coaches should have this power. Very few head coaches are also in charge of personnel.

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

So far this draft class has contributed zero to the team. Last year we wasted a second rounder on a guy who is injured all the time who’s never played.

The fixes at the Oline of Nick Gates and Andy Wylie have been absolute failures.

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

Is it RR who is ultimately evaluating these guys though? Maybe the final evaluation I suppose, but it's the player personnel department putting these players in front of him. Yes, RR's ultimately responsible for making the decision, but it's not like he's doing the leg work and scouting all these cats, rank ordering them, etc. Basically, it's failures all around. Everybody's gotta go!

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1350141]Is it RR who is ultimately evaluating these guys though? Maybe the final evaluation I suppose, but it's the player personnel department putting these players in front of him. Yes, RR's ultimately responsible for making the decision, but it's not like he's doing the leg work and scouting all these cats, rank ordering them, etc. Basically, it's failures all around. Everybody's gotta go![/quote]

This. First get a quality GM. He picks a quality HC, who picks a quality coaching staff. Then he picks a quality head of player personnel, who in turn picks a quality scout team. Then he picks all the other support roles like medical, training etc.

It all hinges on a good GM. if we had one we could fire RR any time and probably be fine. We haven't had a good one in donkeys years, and it shows.

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

Not sure why this warrants a separate thread. Ron's value as a talent evaluator is essentially ZILCH, right? isn't that generally-accepted conventional wisdom?

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

[quote=Chico23231;1350137]So far this draft class has contributed zero to the team. Last year we wasted a second rounder on a guy who is injured all the time who’s never played.

The fixes at the Oline of Nick Gates and Andy Wylie have been absolute failures.[/quote]

Yes, this draft class is terrible and the free agency signings for the offensive line has been a complete fuck up.....all of these seasons ending in 7or 8 wins can be traced back to Ron not knowing what the fuck he is doing.

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1350141]Is it RR who is ultimately evaluating these guys though? Maybe the final evaluation I suppose, but it's the player personnel department putting these players in front of him. Yes, RR's ultimately responsible for making the decision, but it's not like he's doing the leg work and scouting all these cats, rank ordering them, etc. Basically, it's failures all around. Everybody's gotta go![/quote]


Sure the scouts have something to do with it....but our front office is seeing the same draftees and free agents other NFL front offices are evaluating......Ron is just picking poorly.

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1350142]This. First get a quality GM. He picks a quality HC, who picks a quality coaching staff. Then he picks a quality head of player personnel, who in turn picks a quality scout team. Then he picks all the other support roles like medical, training etc.

It all hinges on a good GM. if we had one we could fire RR any time and probably be fine. We haven't had a good one in donkeys years, and it shows.[/quote]


Precisely......

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

[quote=Hoglips;1350148]Not sure why this warrants a separate thread. Ron's value as a talent evaluator is essentially ZILCH, right? isn't that generally-accepted conventional wisdom?[/quote]

Well, I haven't seem anyone else talk about it...but it was something I've been thinking on lately especially during this losing streak......the decisions of Dan Snyder is still hindering this team.

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

I think the personnel decisions have been worse than the coaching decisions. His failure to fix the OL or LB group over 3 years is just... not putting us in a position to win.

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

If you look at the draft coverage for the last couple of years Mayhew has been trying to draft OL high but is, at least on some occasions, getting overruled by Ron. He wanted to take OG in the 1st round of last years draft, and he wanted to trade up for Avila in the second this year. I wonder whether he wanted to take Darrisaw when we drafted Jamin Davis.

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

Forbes, Martin, Dotson, Mathis, Davis, Cosmi, Young. These are the first two rounds of Ron's tenure. First round should be a legitimate starter week 1 in a well ran FO. You should be able to hit water falling out of a boat. Cosmi and Young are the only ones I would say Ron got right. Every other player we could've had on the team with a lower pick based on draft evaluation going in. You could have better success going straight chalk

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

LOTS of examples of 1st and 2nd round picks not contributing at a high level all across the league. Outside the top 5-10 picks (which still aren't a guarantee) the draft is basically a crap shoot in every round.

Not defending Ron and his staff, they haven't done well. But it's easy to look back now and pick apart decisions with hindsight. You can do that with literally every team.

I would say Ron is not a good evaluator of talent. However, I would also say it's not really his job. Sure, he is involved. He decides what the team needs, probably watches some film and makes the final call. My guess is his player personnel department isn't putting bad film in front of him, right?

Anyway, I'm with Hoglips, not sure why this warrants a separate thread. This is being discussed ad nauseam in multiple threads and he's on borrowed time anyway - won't be making anymore of these decisions. Moving along...

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1350141]Is it RR who is ultimately evaluating these guys though? Maybe the final evaluation I suppose, but it's the player personnel department putting these players in front of him. [B]Yes, RR's ultimately responsible for making the decision[/B], but it's not like he's doing the leg work and scouting all these cats, rank ordering them, etc. Basically, it's failures all around. Everybody's gotta go![/quote]

The part I highlighted is all I need to know. The buck stops with RR. If he knows he has incompetents working in player personnel he should have fired and replaced them by now. It's called managing or fixing problems.

Picking Davis over Darrisaw was an abject failure by Ron. A child should have been able to get that one right.

Drafting Forbes over C. Gonzales was even worse. It was a true no-brainer to pick Gonzales.

After 4 years on the job, it's not about RR's qualifications anyway; it's about the results he has accomplished in building a winning football organization. At that, he has failed.

Re: Ron Rivera's qualifications for being a evaluator of talent
 

I think the simple solution is to have us evaluate and draft the talent.