Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

Jesus Christ. Payton is the best coach in the NFL. What if Jimmy Graham ran a pitch option? would that be ok with you? Has Payton not called it? Does that mean he is intelligent? b/c your jumping in the conversation and adding stink like a butthole.

And don't worry about the pitch option play and Robert getting hurt b/c in the past and as the WP scholars have pointed out, he doesn't get hurt in RO, only on scrambles.

Im going to venture a guess that donofriose was being sarcastic. Also, i think this is an open forum where people and their stinky buttholes are allowed to jump in at their leisure.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I was just talking about different players lining up in the backfield which some people have a problem with, meanwhile plenty of teams do the same thing.

I'm sure Kyle would have loved to have done a bunch of different things this year. With RG rehabbing instead of practicing that kinda threw a wrench in those works and what he could expand on this year was pretty limited.

I agree somewhat. We're in week 13 now. At what point does the off season excuse go away? These are professionals. He can add wrinkles here and there.

[Lotus]

I agree with Paintrain and Goat on a point. Whereas I have no problem seeing tight sets with WR's and TE's SOMETIMES (we have some nice plays out of those sets), it also would be helpful if we spread those same personnel out at other times. This would spread the field horizontally to create an explosiveness, as Paintrain said. It also would add to defensive substitution problems, as the defense could see our personnel but not know whether to prepare for the power and deception of the tight sets or the aggression of the spread sets.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

[/B]

I agree somewhat. We're in week 13 now. At what point does the off season excuse go away? These are professionals. He can add wrinkles here and there.

Teams are mostly focused on installing game plans during the week. Installing new stuff and practicing it is what the offseason is for.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

The comment about the RO being a thing we do sparingly- Yeah I'm not hearing that whatsoever Matty. That is the bread and butter behind this offense. Perhaps the only reason we haven't used it more is anyones guess either b/c we are losing, or Kyle is a shit play caller to bring that into every game. I think Kyle's play calling can be agreed and is common ground, yes?

I don't understand the rational to say something that is used a certain % of times of game isn't our offense. What would it take for you to say it was- 90-100% RO plays? No team, not even in college does that. Such a position does not impress me.

Even last year we ran a true read option play about 8 times per game. Hardly bread and butter. But go ahead and believe what you want. Maybe you're confusing it with the pistol formation? And a lot of the plays that look like read option are just dummy calls with RG not actually making the read, it's a predetermined handoff instead.

The Read-Option As We Knew It Is Dead. Long Live the Read-Option | The MMQB with Peter King

The Fact-Based Truth About The Redskins' 2012 Offense

If we run goal line a few times a game, nobody is calling it a goal line offense. So why say something is our offense when it's not being run but a handful of times a game? There are definitely teams in college that run it a heck of a lot more often and you could say that's their offense.

[Mechanix544]

Of course RG3 is our franchise QB. He is too smart not to refine his pocket presence and reads. He just needs a better coach to help him with the rest of the team.

He'll be just fine.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Even last year we ran a true read option play about 8 times per game. Hardly bread and butter. But go ahead and believe what you want. Maybe you're confusing it with the pistol formation? And a lot of the plays that look like read option are just dummy calls with RG not actually making the read, it's a predetermined handoff instead.

The Read-Option As We Knew It Is Dead. Long Live the Read-Option | The MMQB with Peter King

The Fact-Based Truth About The Redskins' 2012 Offense

If we run goal line a few times a game, nobody is calling it a goal line offense. So why say something is our offense when it's not being run but a handful of times a game? There are definitely teams in college that run it a heck of a lot more often and you could say that's their offense.

Two things. I think what GMM probably means, and many of us agree with, is our offense a) doesn't offer a lot of variety beyond two man routes, a few stretch run plays and the RO b) doesn't seem to work at all unless the RO is working.
The other thing is it all adds up to a running QB, and nobody outside this board seems to think that's good.

So it all boils down to why isn't the offense progressing?? RG's injury/recovery, lack of talent, coaching?? Thing is one guy is ultimately responsible for all those answers. He's also ultimately responsible for a terrible defense, special teams and win record the last four years.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I was just talking about different players lining up in the backfield which some people have a problem with, meanwhile plenty of teams do the same thing.

I'm sure Kyle would have loved to have done a bunch of different things this year. With RG rehabbing instead of practicing that kinda threw a wrench in those works and what he could expand on this year was pretty limited.

I just can't see anyone taking up for the Shanahans. It just blows my mind, kind of like the people that think Obamacare is still a good thing........

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

I just can't see anyone taking up for the Shanahans. It just blows my mind, kind of like the people that think Obamacare is still a good thing........

I'm not defending them as much as I'm just trying to look at all the angles.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

well a handful on this site have spoken. You all seem to prefer and defend the read option.
I am fine with my views, I understand your valid points. The team situation seems damn if they do and damned if they don't. However, to protect it behind statements like Robert doesn't get hurt on RO plays is counterproductive. He has had more registered injuries on scramble plays- Atlanta, Baltimore. Clap clap clap. Now can more logic come into the matter? This is a discussion that needs an open mind.

Sure, what logic do you have to refute the fact that Robert got hurt on scrambles, not the RO?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

Rob is taking plenty of punishment. Have any of you RO supporters banging your chest in support and anger towards my opposition ever thought that if the RO wasn't being used and pocket passing pro system installed that Robert would have been mentored and tutored to be safer? Perhaps he doesn't get hit by ngata or concussed b/c we don't run that silly RO bullshit and have taken the time to install in him his value and like in golf its about the next play or game or season. I say Kyle's wreckless RO put Robert in harms way and he should have been protecting him on behalf of the team/fans rather than operating RO and making Rob think on a scramble play to go for everything. Its the mindset that no risk may occur and that is crazy. Defenses get paid to send poster boys home/hurt. Act like you know this Warpath!

So you're saying if RG3 didn't practice running so much, he might not have gotten hurt last season when he was scrambling and...running. Non sequitur. BTW, have you seen the hits he took in the pocket this season?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

I hear what you guys say on that but come now- I have seen him get hit to the ground on handoffs to Alfred and on the QB keeps he takes a lot of hits going out of bounds too. Some get flagged but most don't. Therefore, RO DOES expose Robert to unneeded hits and will/does take a toll on him.

Therefore.. how? You're saying Robert gets hit on handoffs, and going OB, and therefore he must take the same kind of hit running a different kind of play. Logically, this does not follow. Take the following statement: C'mon, Robert gets hit on handoffs and running OB, therefore spiking the ball DOES expose Robert to unneeded hits. See what's wrong with your unsupported declaration now?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

The comment about the RO being a thing we do sparingly- Yeah I'm not hearing that whatsoever Matty. That is the bread and butter behind this offense. Perhaps the only reason we haven't used it more is anyones guess either b/c we are losing, or Kyle is a shit play caller to bring that into every game. I think Kyle's play calling can be agreed and is common ground, yes?
I don't understand the rational to say something that is used a certain % of times of game isn't our offense. What would it take for you to say it was- 90-100% RO plays? No team, not even in college does that. Such a position does not impress me.

Matty addressed this gently and beautifully.

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

I feel like Im centered in an argument with stubborn people. Fine you have your views, I have mine. At the end of the day, I see the '12 season as a failure b/c we didn't win the super bowl and our QB got major surgery that cost us the '13 season. Adding to that, the coaches and WP fans think RO is going to work with the Shanahans b/c San Fran/Seattle have better coaching, players, and will be back to back participants in the Super Bowl. I just lose respect for that mindset. For the teams that don't have the full cast of talented players and coaches. Implementing more RO with a QB that has occurred MORE injuries, with a shitty defense, is just outrageous. We gave up more to get Rob, have lost more than those now successful teams, and we bet the house to run a risky system? The '12 season was misleading. I thought Rob was being eased into the NFL and playcalling to be groomed into a pro style system. To think Shanahan hasn't learned his lesson is as awful as hiring his son.

The '12 season was doomed by injuries caused by not avoiding hits on scrambles, not the RO. San Fran ran the RO more last year because we did, not vice-versa. Your assumptions on MORE injuries are proven wrong. Risky hasn't been the RO. And Griffin has noticeably changed his running on RO's and scrambles to avoid hits like the two that really hurt last season. "Eased into the NFL" implies a gradual shift, which is what a mix of RO and tradtional drops would do. The lesson learned last season was SLIDE or OB, which RG3 seems to have learned very well. The lesson learned so far this season, is that without the RO and PA, defenders pin their ears back and blow thru our turnstiles (I mean OL) as RG3 just drops back. What do you suggest as an alternative?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

Yes San Fran made it to the SBowl using RO. If we are pointing out obvious statements than I shall point out that they weren't as effective doing it, loss to the team we beat, and still managed to have more of a successful '12 and '13 season than we have b/c they have the intelligence to protect and tutor their QB and bring him along. Same can be said for Seattle. Both teams of which didn't break the draft bank to acquire their QB's of future either. I will be watching them in the playoffs at the same location the skins will be- from the couch.

More effective than what? Kap isn't as good as RG3, but they still made the Super Bowl with the RO in their offense. Yes we beat the Ravens in 2011, the Giants the year before, and the Packers the year before that. I wonder why we aren't three time defending superbowl champs... Lol, both SF and Sea still run the RO, did you see Wilson against the Saints last Monday?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

These people supporting and defending the RO with technicalities quotes and references, I don't think adds anything to the real problems with the offense and like you, haven't
swayed my opinion not whatsoever. But again to the catch 22. We are so mixed up. We need repairs but who and what can fix us? Our problem is instability, but the foundation is crap. We needed more talent but lossed too many draft picks and cap space. Now that we have gotten some back, do we go down the same road with the same horrible coaches? We run a 3-4 but are the worst defense in the league. To fix it may be easier to revert BACK to a 4-3. We have cap space but have to spend it resigning players that haven't performed as expected in years past or have been riddled with injuries. And WOrst of all, there is a divide in the fanbase over Read Option.

Technicalities like what Seattle did to NO last Monday, or what we did to the NFL the last several games of last season? I doubt anybody cares what your opinion is (or mine), just whether we run what works for our offense. Hint: We didn't run the RO nearly as much early this season, how'd that work out? The other problems you cite were masked last season by... a dynamic offense that used a mix of RO, PA, and feeding Alfmo. Lastly, I doubt the WORST problem the Skins face right now is controversy over the RO.

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

Idk when the homer flag stops getting waived but its gets really old hearing this propaganda. And the opposition is just as confused how the RO can even be criticized.

What?

Originally Posted by Green Monk Machine

That's the Redskins. Play in MD, practice in VA, call it DC, and have to fight a civil rights issue to even be named. FML

Now this is funny, thanks!

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Of course RG3 is our franchise QB. He is too smart not to refine his pocket presence and reads. He just needs a better coach to help him with the rest of the team.

He'll be just fine.

RG3 needs an offensive line that he can trust and doesn't collapse on every snap, reliable WRs not named Pierre Garcon, a full/healthy sophomore offseason to develop, and a decent defense that can complement the offense.

Just switching coaches is not going to do sh*t, if these other things are not addressed.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

RG3 needs an offensive line that he can trust and doesn't collapse on every snap, reliable WRs not named Pierre Garcon, a full/healthy sophomore offseason to develop, and a decent defense that can complement the offense.

Just switching coaches is not going to do sh*t, if these other things are not addressed.

So basically the most ideal situation imaginable. Got it. You forgot to mention all pro backups at every position in case any starters go down. Heaven forbid he be asked to succeed without a great Offensive line, elite receivers and a top 10 Defense. I'm sure we'll have all of that and more for the next 10-15 years, so he's definitely a sure fire future hall of famer.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

RG3 needs an offensive line that he can trust and doesn't collapse on every snap, reliable WRs not named Pierre Garcon, a full/healthy sophomore offseason to develop, and a decent defense that can complement the offense.

Just switching coaches is not going to do sh*t, if these other things are not addressed.

So do you think he needs to play better?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

So basically the most ideal situation imaginable. Got it. You forgot to mention all pro backups at every position in case any starters go down. Heaven forbid he be asked to succeed without a great Offensive line, elite receivers and a top 10 Defense. I'm sure we'll have all of that and more for the next 10-15 years, so he's definitely a sure fire future hall of famer.

So you read my statement and assumed I meant all-pros at all of these positions? The team would probably have a better record if our offensive line and back up receivers were average.

Last year's offensive line was average, they had a lot of weakness, but they were good enough to make RG3 a good quarterback. I know RG3's ability hid a lot of these weaknesses, but they were definitely better than this year. After the Pittsburgh game last year, the back up receivers played a bit better and the defense came up big time during the winning streak.

None of these things are happening this year. The offensive line regressed from 2012 and collapses in just about every play. I don't think RG3 trusts them at all. Backup receivers are dropping passes a lot, although in their defense, I'm sure the crappy offensive line is affecting the passing game. And the defense is well the bad defense we've been having all season.

I'm sure (and I hope) that with a better salary cap situation, the team can find better options to players like Chester and Polumbus. Coaching is an issue too, but thinking that this is the only problem is right down laughable.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Two things. I think what GMM probably means, and many of us agree with, is our offense a) doesn't offer a lot of variety beyond two man routes, a few stretch run plays and the RO b) doesn't seem to work at all unless the RO is working.

The offense seemed to work just fine without the read option when Kirk Cousins started. So I don't buy into that theory at all. The Read option is merely just another wrinkle into the offense, designed to work toward RGIII's strengths. I still maintain that the plan is to work RGIII into more drop back passing and to slowly scale back the read option in future years, which makes a lot of sense. We would have seen more evidence of this if Griffin had a full offseason.

Originally Posted by The Goat

The other thing is it all adds up to a running QB, and nobody outside this board seems to think that's good.

Well if people outside of this board think having a quarterback who's a running threat is a bad thing, then they are in serious need of a beating. I don't believe for one second anybody who knows anything about football thinks its bad for their quarterback to be a threat with their legs. I think what people are saying is that if the quarterback is not an accurate passer and his only strength is running, then yes, that's not going to get it done. But as I have witness last season and times this season, RGIII has the ability to be a very accurate passer. Anybody who disagrees with that is obviously deaf, dumb, and blind.

Originally Posted by The Goat

So it all boils down to why isn't the offense progressing?? RG's injury/recovery, lack of talent, coaching?? Thing is one guy is ultimately responsible for all those answers. He's also ultimately responsible for a terrible defense, special teams and win record the last four years.

We get it. You hate Mike Shanahan. Whatever. I would just about bet all I have that anybody else who is in Mike Shanahan's shoes and have to be up against the same things Shanny has had to be up against (Griffin's injury, the cap penalties, etc...) would probably have similar results. The only thing I can agree is that the defense is horrible.