Taylor Effing Heinicke

[Redskins247]

Originally Posted by MTK

Sounding more and more like RF might be done for the year. In that case I'm ready for some Kyle Allen soon.

Why...what's the point? Even if Kyle is a little better than TH...it ain't making any difference in the outcome of these games. THIS team is just not a good team, and the coaches have not found any way to make them better. And I think if the coaches thought Kyle was better, he'd already be playing.

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by Redskins247

Why...what's the point? Even if Kyle is a little better than TH...it ain't making any difference in the outcome of these games. THIS team is just not a good team, and the coaches have not found any way to make them better. And I think if the coaches thought Kyle was better, he'd already be playing.

Im not sure Kyle Allen will win us any games above what Heinike has done and will do in the future ... but it may be helpful for evaluation purposes. Im not saying Heinke is as bad as it was towards the end w RG3 but Heinike is not running plays as designed.

I understand that on the field shit happens and happens quickly and its not as easy as drawing up plays in the friendly confines of a film room ... but id like to see Turner's offense run on time how it is designed.

is Humphries good at getting separation in the LOS for crucial 5-7 yard pass plays to move the sticks? I dont know bc the ball doesnt come out right away if he does win at the line.

Are some of these long routes open bc a receiver runs an underneath route pulling the safety up? IDK bc the ball isnt coming out.

Backyard offense.

All we do know is Heinike is good at scrambling and Terry is good at winning 50/50 balls.

I want to be ale to judge Turner. I want to know if receivers are winning their routes. We have to go back and rely on people w the All 22 to see bc the tv feed stays on the QB who just holds, scrambles then throws on a now broken play.

TV feed .. we have no idea if guys are open or not.

I want to know if its play design. I will know if the Qb throws the ball on time as designed.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Redskins247

Why...what's the point? Even if Kyle is a little better than TH...it ain't making any difference in the outcome of these games. THIS team is just not a good team, and the coaches have not found any way to make them better. And I think if the coaches thought Kyle was better, he'd already be playing.

Last year Rivera said this when asked about Allen...

Question: Could you have been in this position this year right now where you are before the playoffs without Alex?

"Well, if we had a healthy Kyle Allen, I think we could've. I really do," Rivera said. "I think we could've. And a big part of the reason is because Kyle, he's very similar to Alex in terms of his abilities. He's got the same kind of arm. He makes good decisions like Alex does. He's got good footwork. I think we could've been. I do."

So if there's any chance of turning this season around, make the switch before it's too late. Haven't we seen just about enough of TH at this point to know he's just not starting material? If Rivera truly believes in Allen and he's healthy, why wouldn't you make the switch? They gave this Heinicke thing a chance, it's not working.

I really think if TH doesn't get it done against Denver we could see Allen after the bye.

[Chico23231]

I say make the change

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Redskins247

Why...what's the point? Even if Kyle is a little better than TH...it ain't making any difference in the outcome of these games. THIS team is just not a good team, and the coaches have not found any way to make them better. And I think if the coaches thought Kyle was better, he'd already be playing.

There might be one player on this team, who when he talks, I tend to pretty much believe whatever he is saying. That is Jonathan Allen. After the game on Sunday he expressed his frustration, saying that this team is "such a better football team than what our record says". He later said "Losing teams find ways to lose games, and winning teams find ways to win games. And right now, we’re finding ways to lose."

It sound like he's saying that - while they are finding ways to lose, this team is not as bad as their record says they are.

They have obviously coached and played their way to the record they currently have, there's no disputing that. However, if Jonathan Allen thinks they have what it takes to be a better team, then with 10 games left I can't write them off yet.

[rocnrik]

I would absolutely give Kyle a shot !!

[skinsfaninok]

I think its time for Allen as well but I don't see Ron doing it

[MTK]

Part of Bullock's latest TH breakdown

Now seven weeks into the season, we’re starting to get a better understanding of what Washington has in quarterback Taylor Heinicke. His sample size is still small and he could still improve or regress, but importantly, we’re starting to see repeated trends within his play that suggest he has some consistent issues. His stat line against the Packers, where he completed 25 of 37 passes for 268 yards and one touchdown and one interception, as always failed to tell the whole story.

So what are the trends we’re seeing from Heinicke as he gets more opportunities to start? Let’s take a closer look

Ball placement issues

Since the start of the season, it’s been clear to see that Heinicke has had issues with accuracy and ball placement. You can look at his stats and see he’s completing just over 64% of his passes this year, which isn’t terrible though it does rank 26th of 34 eligible quarterbacks. But accuracy and specifically ball placement is more than just completing passes, it’s about putting the ball in a position to help the receiver not only catch the ball, but pick up additional yards after the catch. That is where Heinicke has hurt his receivers. His ball placement has consistently been high and behind targets and his velocity hasn’t been great either, which leads to receivers having to wait for balls to arrive and stop their momentum to adjust their bodies to the pass.

These two plays are examples of this issue from the Packers game. The first play of the clip shows Terry McLaurin running wide open on a sail route. He has tons of room to work with and a good throw could see him turn up the sideline and pick up even more yards. The throw, however, is late to arrive, high and off target. That forces McLaurin to come back to the path of the ball and then jump to just reach it. He manages to make the catch, but the throw means the defenders around him were able to close in and limit the yards after catch potential.

The second play of the clip is a pivot route from Adam Humphries in the slot. Heinicke delivers the throw on time, as Humphries makes his break outside. However, the throw is again behind its target and lacks velocity, forcing Humphries to slow down out of his break and allowing the defender a chance to catch up. A better throw with more velocity and placed further outside might give Humphries a chance to catch the ball and turn up the sideline before the defender can close on him.

Limiting yards after the catch is an issue as it severely hurts the potential of the offense, especially with guys like Terry McLaurin and Curtis Samuel (when healthy), who are so good after the catch. It also must be frustrating for receivers like McLaurin, who get open regularly with well run routes only to have to slow down and fight for contested catches because of poorly thrown balls. But the more frustrating thing for receivers, I’d imagine, is Heinicke exposing them to hits.

This is becoming an increasingly large issue for Washington, especially with the number of pass catchers currently sidelined. The three plays in this clip are just a handful of some of the hits Heinicke has exposed his receivers to. The first play is a shallow cross to J.D. McKissic in which Heinicke throws high and behind McKissic with another slow, lofty throw. McKissic has to concentrate on turning his body back to the ball to try and make the catch that he’s completely unaware of the safety charging in behind him. With McKissic’s whole body in the air in an awkward position to try and catch the ball, the safety is able to land a big hit that could have led to an injury, though fortunately it didn’t.

The second play is similar to the sail route we saw to McLaurin earlier. This time the route is read much better by the safety and he drives down on it, but the floaty pass from Heinicke means McLaurin has to wait and jump up for the ball, again exposing him to a hit from behind where he can’t protect himself.

The third play is perhaps the worst of the lot, with McKissic working on a choice route out of the backfield. Granted, Heinicke does feel some early pressure inside and needs to get the ball out quickly. However, he locks onto McKissic, leading the safety straight to him, and then delivers another high and floaty pass that leads McKissic straight into the safety. McKissic takes another huge hit that again he’s fortunate to get back up from.

The issues with ball placement and velocity are becoming significant. They aren’t just hindering the offense by limiting the yards after catch potential and having receivers have to fight for contested catches, they’re exposing receivers to big hits. Washington is already without Samuel, Logan Thomas, Cam Sims and now rookie Dyami Brown. If the team were to lose McLaurin from a hit after one of these throws, the offense would be in big trouble.

[Ruhskins]

Spot on.

TH's accuracy is terrible. Terry has been making miracle catches to save TH, but sooner or later Terry is going to get hurt making those high catches.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Spot on.

TH's accuracy is terrible. Terry has been making miracle catches to save TH, but sooner or later Terry is going to get hurt making those high catches.

Usually smaller QB's (in my coaching experiences) do not throw high as much as TH does, the dude is just not very accurate. I Love his gamer mentality tho and I believe he should stay on as a QB2

[AnonEmouse]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Usually smaller QB's (in my coaching experiences) do not throw high as much as TH does, the dude is just not very accurate. I Love his gamer mentality tho and I believe he should stay on as a QB2

Yes, but if its as bad as the film suggests, maybe Allen should be that #1 at this point. Not so much to find a spark (which I doubt Allen brings) but to protect your prized assets on O.

[Redskins247]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Im not sure Kyle Allen will win us any games above what Heinike has done and will do in the future ... but it may be helpful for evaluation purposes. Im not saying Heinke is as bad as it was towards the end w RG3 but Heinike is not running plays as designed.

I understand that on the field shit happens and happens quickly and its not as easy as drawing up plays in the friendly confines of a film room ... but id like to see Turner's offense run on time how it is designed.

is Humphries good at getting separation in the LOS for crucial 5-7 yard pass plays to move the sticks? I dont know bc the ball doesnt come out right away if he does win at the line.

Are some of these long routes open bc a receiver runs an underneath route pulling the safety up? IDK bc the ball isnt coming out.

Backyard offense.

All we do know is Heinike is good at scrambling and Terry is good at winning 50/50 balls.

I want to be ale to judge Turner. I want to know if receivers are winning their routes. We have to go back and rely on people w the All 22 to see bc the tv feed stays on the QB who just holds, scrambles then throws on a now broken play.

TV feed .. we have no idea if guys are open or not.

I want to know if its play design. I will know if the Qb throws the ball on time as designed.

Well those are certainly valid points, and if/when they lose to Denver and wanted to start Kyle after for those reasons then that's probably the smart thing to do. And maybe they learn something about the offense, but I don't see it making a difference in wins but it will show they are trying everything if nothing else. What we've learned is that TH is a good backup to keep around.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Redskins247

Well those are certainly valid points, and if/when they lose to Denver and wanted to start Kyle after for those reasons then that's probably the smart thing to do. And maybe they learn something about the offense, but I don't see it making a difference in wins but it will show they are trying everything if nothing else. What we've learned is that TH is a good backup to keep around.

I think they'll beat Denver. I have tickets to the game, but was talking to the wife this morning about selling them.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

Yes, but if its as bad as the film suggests, maybe Allen should be that #1 at this point. Not so much to find a spark (which I doubt Allen brings) but to protect your prized assets on O.

Allen is TH without the gamer mentality.

[Redskins247]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Allen is TH without the gamer mentality.

I think so too. And while I know Kyle can move around and be mobile, I think he'll show more of where the O line is at. Is TH bailing on plays too soon? Or is it a necessity?