Vinny Cerrato

[HOGTIMUS PRIME]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Yeah I heard Kiper remark a couple of times this weekend that he thinks Vinny's strength is evaluating talent.

I like that we finally have someone in place that we know is calling the shots and can be accountable for what we do personnel-wise.

And here it is I thought it was brown noseing Dan.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME

And here it is I thought it was brown noseing Dan.

how am I brown nosing?

Or were you referring to Kiper?

[HOGTIMUS PRIME]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

how am I brown nosing?

Or were you referring to Kiper?

Neither, it was VC.

[KB24]

While I admit to being an avid Cerrato-basher and I have to give him props for the way he handled the draft this weekend. I've always been a BIG fan of trading down to get more picks if the value of the player isn't worth the selection. He did that numerous times and it was quite the coup to get TWO(!) big receivers in the second round after they were thought to be gone in the first. They'll both contribute this coming season as they battle Mix and Thrash for the third and fourth receiver spots. I do question the wisdom of taking a tight end in the second round and not doing more to address the defensive line, the strategy used was solid and the patience demonstrated may be an indication that maybe Snyder is learning. Time will tell, but this draft weekend was positive to me.

[Schneed10]

By the way 12thMan, that's a very well written opinion to open the thread, and one I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with. You could be a sportswriter.

I agree that it's tough to tell who was responsible for certain personnel moves over the last few seasons. Some love to come down on Snyder, but he limits his media exposure so much that it's hard for any writer to accurately say exactly what his level of involvement has been the last few seasons.

Now we seem to have a clear definition of the roles and responsibilities. Vinny is now clearly making the personnel decisions while listening to the input of all those minds at his disposal within the organization. And yesterday's interview with Trey Wingo on ESPN is the first sign that he's the face of the front office, and will be accountable to the fans and the media going forward.

[GTripp0012]

I'm not impressed by the haul, but I AM impressed by the job that Vinny did. Trading down three separate times, and attacking a need to make sure it wouldn't be a need anymore, all signs of a great GM in the making.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'm not impressed by the haul, but I AM impressed by the job that Vinny did. Trading down three separate times, and attacking a need to make sure it wouldn't be a need anymore, all signs of a great GM in the making.

Yeah but, and no offense, you tend to get so mired in the details when it comes to the draft and all these players that if the draft doesn't go according to how you'd draft it, you'll naturally be unimpressed.

If you step back and check out the forest for the trees, we acquired some weapons at key areas, which will expand the various methods we can employ to attack a defense.

If you focus on what we didn't get, I think you miss the point of the draft. Instead focus on what we did get. It was a number of very talented players who will be paid on the cheap.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah but, and no offense, you tend to get so mired in the details when it comes to the draft and all these players that if the draft doesn't go according to how you'd draft it, you'll naturally be unimpressed.

If you step back and check out the forest for the trees, we acquired some weapons at key areas, which will expand the various methods we can employ to attack a defense.

If you focus on what we didn't get, I think you miss the point of the draft. Instead focus on what we did get. It was a number of very talented players who will be paid on the cheap.

I feel that's a fair criticism of me, but again, when I see the potential for a great draft, and all we can do is fill a mid level need for the future with it, I'm (naturally) going to be disappointed.

I mean, there's the train of thought that you filled a critical need cheaply, but you have to ask yourself if the need was actually filled, and at what cost. Yes, the "red zone weapons" need was filled, but it cost THREE second round draft picks. Was the red zone weapons need worth three second round draft picks? A rational person would say no.

I think who we didn't draft is a very critical factor in evaluating a draft. If it wasn't, no one would every have a bad draft. I'm not advocating hindsight three years from now if Calais Campbell becomes an all-pro. That's pretty pointless. I'm looking at a roster that is seven deep with competent receivers, and I'm just thinking to myself, as we all should be:

"If Santana Moss gets back on track this year, where are we going to play him? If Randle El continues to play well, where are we going to play him?"

Fact: Wide Receivers and Tight Ends don't have the impact on the game to make the offense score ten more points per game than it did last season. People don't have any clue what they are talking about. That's just not the way things work.

What we didn't do was add any significant help for a front seven that is starting 4 players over the age of thirty, and a 5th next year when Andre Carter hits 30. That matters. It really does.

Yes, we can address those needs next year, but do you have any confidence that we will?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I feel that's a fair criticism of me, but again, when I see the potential for a great draft, and all we can do is fill a mid level need for the future with it, I'm (naturally) going to be disappointed.

I mean, there's the train of thought that you filled a critical need cheaply, but you have to ask yourself if the need was actually filled, and at what cost. Yes, the "red zone weapons" need was filled, but it cost THREE second round draft picks. Was the red zone weapons need worth three second round draft picks? A rational person would say no.

I think who we didn't draft is a very critical factor in evaluating a draft. If it wasn't, no one would every have a bad draft. I'm not advocating hindsight three years from now if Calais Campbell becomes an all-pro. That's pretty pointless. I'm looking at a roster that is seven deep with competent receivers, and I'm just thinking to myself, as we all should be:

"If Santana Moss gets back on track this year, where are we going to play him? If Randle El continues to play well, where are we going to play him?"

Fact: Wide Receivers and Tight Ends don't have the impact on the game to make the offense score ten more points per game than it did last season. People don't have any clue what they are talking about. That's just not the way things work.

What we didn't do was add any significant help for a front seven that is starting 4 players over the age of thirty, and a 5th next year when Andre Carter hits 30. That matters. It really does.

Yes, we can address those needs next year, but do you have any confidence that we will?

Sorry, but I vehemently disagree with the bolded point.. When you look at the most productive offenses in the NFL, what do they have in common? At least one elite WR. NE-Randy Moss, Dallas-Owens, Cleveland-Braylon Edwards, Indy-Harrison & Wayne.. Points come from the passing game!! Of course the line (which we have a good one) and QB (which we have a good one) are important, without the players with the ability to get 40 or 50 yard chunks at a time it's tough to score a ton of points in the league..

I don't know what your Redskins 7 deep WR depth chart looked like before the draft but I saw Moss, Randle-El, Mix, Thrash and that's it. I see 2 solid WR, an unproven-undrafted prospect and an older special teams player.. If Thomas and/or Kelly develop into what we expect, we can legitimately trot out 4 solid WR on any given week and cause matchup nightmares for any DC. Can you imagine having to put a nickel or dime corner on Moss in the slot? Having a LB or safety matched one on one with Randle-El? With the attention the WR are going to require, it sets up another mismatch for Cooley with whomever has to match up with him. This was a draft to build an explosive offense to compete with the elite teams in the league.

[Jake2008]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Sorry, but I vehemently disagree with the bolded point.. When you look at the most productive offenses in the NFL, what do they have in common? At least one elite WR. NE-Randy Moss, Dallas-Owens, Cleveland-Braylon Edwards, Indy-Harrison & Wayne.. Points come from the passing game!! Of course the line (which we have a good one) and QB (which we have a good one) are important, without the players with the ability to get 40 or 50 yard chunks at a time it's tough to score a ton of points in the league..

I don't know what your Redskins 7 deep WR depth chart looked like before the draft but I saw Moss, Randle-El, Mix, Thrash and that's it. I see 2 solid WR, an unproven-undrafted prospect and an older special teams player.. If Thomas and/or Kelly develop into what we expect, we can legitimately trot out 4 solid WR on any given week and cause matchup nightmares for any DC. Can you imagine having to put a nickel or dime corner on Moss in the slot? Having a LB or safety matched one on one with Randle-El? With the attention the WR are going to require, it sets up another mismatch for Cooley with whomever has to match up with him. This was a draft to build an explosive offense to compete with the elite teams in the league.

The teams you mentioned also had great lines. Look what happened to Brady when he finally got pressured. Moss didn't make a difference. All these guys had time to look over the defense and wait for someone to get open. You can only do that with a great offensive line. Without it, you better have John Elway.

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I feel that's a fair criticism of me, but again, when I see the potential for a great draft, and all we can do is fill a mid level need for the future with it, I'm (naturally) going to be disappointed.

I mean, there's the train of thought that you filled a critical need cheaply, but you have to ask yourself if the need was actually filled, and at what cost. Yes, the "red zone weapons" need was filled, but it cost THREE second round draft picks. Was the red zone weapons need worth three second round draft picks? A rational person would say no.

I think who we didn't draft is a very critical factor in evaluating a draft. If it wasn't, no one would every have a bad draft. I'm not advocating hindsight three years from now if Calais Campbell becomes an all-pro. That's pretty pointless. I'm looking at a roster that is seven deep with competent receivers, and I'm just thinking to myself, as we all should be:

"If Santana Moss gets back on track this year, where are we going to play him? If Randle El continues to play well, where are we going to play him?"

Fact: Wide Receivers and Tight Ends don't have the impact on the game to make the offense score ten more points per game than it did last season. People don't have any clue what they are talking about. That's just not the way things work.

What we didn't do was add any significant help for a front seven that is starting 4 players over the age of thirty, and a 5th next year when Andre Carter hits 30. That matters. It really does.

Yes, we can address those needs next year, but do you have any confidence that we will?

Don't worry Calais Campbell won't be a pro bowler.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I mean, there's the train of thought that you filled a critical need cheaply, but you have to ask yourself if the need was actually filled, and at what cost. Yes, the "red zone weapons" need was filled, but it cost THREE second round draft picks. Was the red zone weapons need worth three second round draft picks? A rational person would say no.

I think who we didn't draft is a very critical factor in evaluating a draft. If it wasn't, no one would every have a bad draft. I'm not advocating hindsight three years from now if Calais Campbell becomes an all-pro. That's pretty pointless. I'm looking at a roster that is seven deep with competent receivers, and I'm just thinking to myself, as we all should be:

Fact: Wide Receivers and Tight Ends don't have the impact on the game to make the offense score ten more points per game than it did last season. People don't have any clue what they are talking about. That's just not the way things work.

What we didn't do was add any significant help for a front seven that is starting 4 players over the age of thirty, and a 5th next year when Andre Carter hits 30. That matters. It really does.

Yes, we can address those needs next year, but do you have any confidence that we will?

I wouldn't classify the three 2nd rounders as exclusively "Red Zone" threats. Thomas runs a 4.4, Davis can stretch the middle of the field, and Kelly while initially may be a "Red Zone" guy, should develop into A. Boldin-lite as long as he doesn't act like a whiny-baby.

I agree with your point about improving the offensive point production not being done by a single WR. However if you give a developing QB three more large targets that can make plays on the ball, that will definitely help keep drives alive and compensate for inaccuracy as JC learns the system and improves. I think two major factors in the improvement to our offense will be a combination of Zorn's playcalling and JCs improved play.

We did address the OL with the 3rd rounder and some of the UDFAs. I'll wager Buges develops at least one of the UDFAs into a solid back-up. DL & LB is still a concern that I share with you.

I was hoping for DL to be addressed early, then WR later, but unfortuantely the draft didn't play out that way. Merling was taken right before our #34 pick by Miami, (based on SS's G2 we may have gone with Thomas even if Merling was there). Trevor Laws was taken a pick or two before our # 48, Harrison, DT, Ark was taken shortly before our 3rd or 4th rounder. So VC & crew went with "best available" and I thought addressed needs pretty well on Day 2.

[redsk1]

Vinny is a likeable guy. I thought he did well in the draft this year. However...I still judge the skins and the FO on wins and losses. Vinny hasn't really done a good job (we don't know exactly what his role has been in the past), b/c we haven't really been too successful. There's really no way to argue to the contrary. Hopefully we're headed in the right direction.

[12thMan]

There's always, always a pick here or there that people just won't be happy with. Just two years ago, maybe it's been three now, people jumped all over the Texans for taking Mario Williams over Bush. Now that choice 'aint looking so bad, especially since Bush isn't an every down back like most initially thought.

[Paintrain]

Wilbon (who I respect more than most talking heads) is a big Cerrato supporter. I for one am VERY happy with the draft. I love the bolstering of offense we've put in. Our problem under Gibbs was not being able (or willing) to score enough points to win the game. We didn't lose many games 31-28, it was moreso 21-13 or 17-13. If we can score 24-28 PPG we're going to win a bunch of football games in '08. Our defense has more than enough talent to keep 21 points off the board most weeks.