Mike Shanahan

[hagams]

This is MS if we don't have a good 2012 season. The eyes are almost identical to Mikes. I swear this is how he looks on the sideline, whether it's a good or bad play.

[NYCskinfan82]

We all know MS is rebuilding, he might not want to say it but he is, we need to give him time.

[celts32]

I expect him to get the full 5 years. It took Vinny 10 years to make this mess...it takes a hell of a lot more then 2 years to clean it up.

[redsk1]

So you are saying that it should take 3 years to rebuild a team from utter crap?

He should get his full 5 years. No offense but this fire MS crap is the same impatience that the organization has shown over the last 15 years.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by redsk1

So you are saying that it should take 3 years to rebuild a team from utter crap?

He should get his full 5 years. No offense but this fire MS crap is the same impatience that the organization has shown over the last 15 years.

3 years to show progress.

Another double digit loss season in 2012 and I think MS is on the hot seat and rightfully so.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

3 years to show progress.

Another double digit loss season in 2012 and I think MS is on the hot seat and rightfully so.

I think Snyder cant take another 10 loss season. I dont know if I can either.

I really think the Shanny article of which said "this is gonna be harder than I thought " was a HUGGGGGGE admission by a guy who ego rivals the largest in the game. First sign of pressure from Shanny. I think Shanny is very aggressive in FA especially on the offense side of the ball, Shanny is embarrassed by the play on the field, especially at QB. Grossman/Beck made him look really bad.

[skinsguy]

Look guys. I think before a team discusses firing or hiring a head coach, the franchise needs to sit down and establish what it's identity is going to be moving forward. The Washington Redskins of the 1980's and early 90's was built around the identity of being a smash mouth team that runs to set up the play action pass down field. It's defenses were based around a 4-3 which had top pass rushers as book ends, and athletic linebackers who could cover receivers. You know what it meant when the commentators talked about Redskins football.

Nowadays, what is considered Redskins football? I can't tell you, because I honestly don't know. Since 2000, Redskins football has consistently meant more in terms of inconsistency and a complete philosophical change from year to year. Simply just changing the coaching staff, because the present regime isn't working does not fix the problem. What Bruce Allen and Daniel Snyder need to do is to sit down and try to answer this simple question first: What is our identity?

Once that has been established, then you stick with it, and you hire your coaching staff accordingly. If coaching staff one just can't get things turned around after a few seasons, you go with coaching staff two – so forth and so on. But, you only hire coaches who have similar philosophies, who are coming in with virtually the same style offense/defense, with whatever wrinkles they may have. As the front office continues playing trial and error with getting the right coaching staff in to be successful, at least the team itself knows continuity in regards to players, X's and O's. Sure, terminology might change (tomAto, tomAHto) but it's still the same system.

Which brings me to this point about Mike Shanahan. Eventually, Daniel Snyder is going to have to realize that whoever the coaching staff is, fail or succeed, he needs to realize that THIS style that THIS coaching staff has put into place is one we want to continue on with even if we feel the present coaching staff is not the right fit in Washington. So, I honestly think that Bruce Allen and Daniel Snyder should have a say so in determining that. OK, so the Redskins are going to be a team built around a West Coast offense (or a variation at least) with a 3-4 defense. So, if Allen and Snyder feel that Shanahan just is not working in Washington, they need to go out and find another head coach/staff who's going to make the present system work.

In my humble opinion, THAT is the only way we will ever see the Redskins truly be a consistently successful franchise from year in/year out again. If Shanahan is fired after season three, then Snyder will, of course, want to go out and hire the “best” candidate available. But, if that guy has a completely different philosophy that he's bringing to the team, guess what? You're starting all over once again. It's time to get out of that mentality and off the Merry-Go-Round. Either live with and buy into what Mike Shanahan is trying to establish, or bring in someone new who is going to pick up and go with what Mike has already laid out.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

3 years to show progress.

Another double digit loss season in 2012 and I think MS is on the hot seat and rightfully so.

I can argue that we have shown progress. We're in a much better position than we were 2 years ago.
-younger team
-good offensive system
-cap room
-GM/organizational improvement
-more talent on Defense

Wins and Losses aren't there yet. I do expect to get more wins next year, but I don't expect necessarily to be a playoff team.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I can argue that we have shown progress. We're in a much better position than we were 2 years ago.
-younger team
-good offensive system
-cap room
-GM/organizational improvement
-more talent on Defense

Wins and Losses aren't there yet. I do expect to get more wins next year, but I don't expect necessarily to be a playoff team.

I agree! The points you made point to progress and points to the Redskins being on the right track.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I can argue that we have shown progress. We're in a much better position than we were 2 years ago.
-younger team
-good offensive system
-cap room
-GM/organizational improvement
-more talent on Defense

Wins and Losses aren't there yet. I do expect to get more wins next year, but I don't expect necessarily to be a playoff team.

Agree with everything, but good offensive system is very debateble. Im not for firing Shanny, but I think by next year 10 losses again would mitigate everything you just listed.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I can argue that we have shown progress. We're in a much better position than we were 2 years ago.
-younger team
-good offensive system
-cap room
-GM/organizational improvement
-more talent on Defense

Wins and Losses aren't there yet. I do expect to get more wins next year, but I don't expect necessarily to be a playoff team.

Exactly. It sounds stupid but wins and losses are not always the best judge of progress. A couple plays decide who wins and loses most NFL games. The media talking heads will point to Shannys record as compared to Zorn and conclude that no progress has been made but those of us who watch the team every week can see the difference between now and Zorns last year. The Redskins are greatly improved in just about every area but it will not show up in the win/loss column until they get better more consistent play from the QB position.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by celts32

Exactly. It sounds stupid but wins and losses are not always the best judge of progress. A couple plays decide who wins and loses most NFL games. The media talking heads will point to Shannys record as compared to Zorn and conclude that no progress has been made but those of us who watch the team every week can see the difference between now and Zorns last year. The Redskins are greatly improved in just about every area but it will not show up in the win/loss column until they get better more consistent play from the QB position.

When do wins/losses come into the equation? Until we get a better QB?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by celts32

Exactly. It sounds stupid but wins and losses are not always the best judge of progress. A couple plays decide who wins and loses most NFL games. The media talking heads will point to Shannys record as compared to Zorn and conclude that no progress has been made but those of us who watch the team every week can see the difference between now and Zorns last year. The Redskins are greatly improved in just about every area but it will not show up in the win/loss column until they get better more consistent play from the QB position.

You are correct: wins and losses are a pretty shoddy marker of progress. Blind faith in the future is even worse.

I just don't understand how people can say the Redskins are greatly improved in just about every area. If THAT flies as truth, people can say just about anything these days. It just doesn't hold up against critical evaluation. It is a myth.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I can argue that we have shown progress. We're in a much better position than we were 2 years ago.
-younger team
-good offensive system
-cap room
-GM/organizational improvement
-more talent on Defense

Wins and Losses aren't there yet. I do expect to get more wins next year, but I don't expect necessarily to be a playoff team.

Agree there has been significant progress but maybe not in the same areas you do...

Younger team: Definitely - - and more importantly this team is FASTER than the Redskins' teams of 3-5 years ago.

Good offensive system: Maybe - - jury is still out on this because the Skins' offense does not produce. Sure, they need an upgrade on the offensive side of the ball in terms of talent but still - - after two years in the same system you would think there would be more "improvement" on the scoreboard if the system itself was all that great.

Cap room: Much better managed now than before.

GM/organizational improvement: The fact that there is a real GM who knows a football from a canary is a huge improvement. As to the rest of the organization, the jury is still out... Scouts produced a good draft board in 2011 and the team reaped benefits; these are the same scouts for the most part that produced the draft boards back in '10 and '09... So, have the scouts been really good all along and the suits who make the picks were at fault for bad drafts - - or - - did the scouts just get lucky in 2011? In Jerry McGuire the rant was "Show me the money!" Here I want the scouts to "Show me the talent - - again!"

More talent on defense: Certainly true of the front 7 but you have a lot of talking to do to convince me that the secondary in 2011 is much more than a bunch of pretty ordinary guys hanging out back there.

[30gut]

The Mike Shanahan regimes deserves another year.

But, a few point of facts:

o The offense has only recently begun to improve (3rd down conversion/RZ scoring/passing game efficiency) over Zorn's offense and Zorn had less talent

o Bruce Allen is not a true GM he's more of a cap expert/PR guy

o There have been personnel mistakes.
The biggest and scariest is the entering into year 3 of a rebuild without a QB of the future.
For 2 seasons they've missed on the most important position on any team especially a team as determined to win with the passing game.

Imo being the HC and the defacto GM is a schizophrenic existence at the heart of some of the mistakes made thus far.
Not being able to set a firm path on either rebuilding or winning now has lead us to 2 season somewhere in the middle.

Shanahan deserves another year, and for his sake and ours I hope he solves the QB problem.