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Fresh Start Political Thread

Debating with the enemy


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Old 04-15-2021, 01:37 AM   #1
sdskinsfan2001
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Fresh Start Political Thread

The 2021 beyond thread was a great thread for the transition period from Trump to Biden.

A fresh thread feels right, right now imo. If my opinion was wrong, feel free to ignore/delete.

Like that thread, hopefully this can be more future forward in discussion.

I want a flat tax. I have never heard of ToughNickel before. But it looks like a legit site. They had this pro's and con article about the flat tax vs. progressive tax.

https://toughnickel.com/personal-fin...ons-for-the-US

Anything political can be discussed here, this was just a new site to me. Wish there were more shows, articles, etc. that included at least 2 arguments to every policy, idea, law, etc.
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Old 04-15-2021, 08:15 AM   #2
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

I have been advocating a flat tax for a while now.
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Old 04-15-2021, 09:39 AM   #3
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

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Old 04-15-2021, 10:00 AM   #4
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

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Originally Posted by MTK View Post
Haha, always a great meme. I'm sure by the time in gets to Pg. 2 it will look the same.

4 posts in, no arguing yet though lol.
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Old 04-15-2021, 10:11 AM   #5
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

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Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001 View Post
Haha, always a great meme. I'm sure by the time in gets to Pg. 2 it will look the same.

4 posts in, no arguing yet though lol.
Just wait till the drunk old uncle comes and ruins everything.
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Old 04-15-2021, 10:32 AM   #6
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

Flat Tax Pros and Cons

Pros

easy to understand and comply with, thereby reducing errors and tax fraud

professional tax preparers and advisors no longer needed, saving money for taxpayer

lawmakers can no longer create tax loopholes in exchange for campaign contributions or other personal favors

businesses can make decisions designed to better serve the marketplace and their stockholders, instead of trying to beat the tax code

may encourage investment and expansion, as additional profit is not taxed at a higher rate

Cons

may shift tax burden away from the rich, to the middle and lower class

elimination of deductions may have negative impact on taxpayers with lower income

government cannot use the tax code to encourage desirable activities, such as giving tax credits for making a home more energy-efficient

thousands of government employees and tax professionals would lose their jobs, or suffer a large decrease in business

effects on government revenue of converting to a flat tax are difficult to predict accurately

------------

From that article alone, looking at their list of pros and cons ... id be a strong no to a flat tax.

Currently, low income dont pay anything, middle class takes the brunt as paying 20-30% making 80k to 120k does tighten the belt, and rich people pay 33% but theyre rich and use accountants and loop holes to pay less.

Im middle class, I think we get screwed the most.

Flat tax means we tax the poor more and tax the rich less? In what world does that sound fair in a country where wealth distribution is ridiculous.

Money is a tool to build schools, put food on tables, allow families to own a home ... its the fuel needed to further our society and the betterment of all.

The top 10% of this country, the elite rich, hold 69% or more of the money in the US. The poor people today are just as poor as the poor people 20 years ago.

When the elite rich hold vast sums of money and just put it on the shelf in some stock or CD investment .. that money isnt being used, its not fueling progress for society. Money is but a means to make life better for the individuals and our country as a whole.

Elite rich just hoarding money and not putting back into society is a problem imo.

-----------

If your focusing on poor people not paying taxes on their 34k a year income .. youre barking up the wrong tree imo.

Also corporate taxes are a joke.

-------------------------------------------

In 2018, Amazon posted income of more than $11 billion, but the company paid $0 in federal taxes. In fact, thanks to tax credits and deductions, Amazon actually received a federal tax refund of $129 million. That was a year after Amazon received a $137 million refund from the federal government for 2017.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/amaz...ince-2016.html

-------------------

Lets actually tax the profit off giants like Amazon and the elite rich ...
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Old 04-15-2021, 10:36 AM   #7
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

Flat tax has always sounded great in principle, but once you start drilling down you see it's not a great answer.
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Old 04-15-2021, 10:41 AM   #8
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnySide View Post
Flat Tax Pros and Cons

Pros

easy to understand and comply with, thereby reducing errors and tax fraud

professional tax preparers and advisors no longer needed, saving money for taxpayer

lawmakers can no longer create tax loopholes in exchange for campaign contributions or other personal favors

businesses can make decisions designed to better serve the marketplace and their stockholders, instead of trying to beat the tax code

may encourage investment and expansion, as additional profit is not taxed at a higher rate

Cons

may shift tax burden away from the rich, to the middle and lower class

elimination of deductions may have negative impact on taxpayers with lower income

government cannot use the tax code to encourage desirable activities, such as giving tax credits for making a home more energy-efficient

thousands of government employees and tax professionals would lose their jobs, or suffer a large decrease in business

effects on government revenue of converting to a flat tax are difficult to predict accurately

------------

From that article alone, looking at their list of pros and cons ... id be a strong no to a flat tax.

Currently, low income dont pay anything, middle class takes the brunt as paying 20-30% making 80k to 120k does tighten the belt, and rich people pay 33% but theyre rich and use accountants and loop holes to pay less.

Im middle class, I think we get screwed the most.

Flat tax means we tax the poor more and tax the rich less? In what world does that sound fair in a country where wealth distribution is ridiculous.

Money is a tool to build schools, put food on tables, allow families to own a home ... its the fuel needed to further our society and the betterment of all.

The top 10% of this country, the elite rich, hold 69% or more of the money in the US. The poor people today are just as poor as the poor people 20 years ago.

When the elite rich hold vast sums of money and just put it on the shelf in some stock or CD investment .. that money isnt being used, its not fueling progress for society. Money is but a means to make life better for the individuals and our country as a whole.

Elite rich just hoarding money and not putting back into society is a problem imo.

-----------

If your focusing on poor people not paying taxes on their 34k a year income .. youre barking up the wrong tree imo.

Also corporate taxes are a joke.

-------------------------------------------

In 2018, Amazon posted income of more than $11 billion, but the company paid $0 in federal taxes. In fact, thanks to tax credits and deductions, Amazon actually received a federal tax refund of $129 million. That was a year after Amazon received a $137 million refund from the federal government for 2017.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/amaz...ince-2016.html

-------------------

Lets actually tax the profit off giants like Amazon and the elite rich ...
I like the flat tax, but with no taxes on anyone on the 1st 30K. Maybe even 40K.

Doesn't matter if you make 30K or 100M, no taxes on the 1st 30K.

I am fine with lower income earners not paying federal taxes. They need every dollar they earn.
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Old 04-15-2021, 11:20 AM   #9
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001 View Post
I like the flat tax, but with no taxes on anyone on the 1st 30K. Maybe even 40K.

Doesn't matter if you make 30K or 100M, no taxes on the 1st 30K.

I am fine with lower income earners not paying federal taxes. They need every dollar they earn.


^^ projected 2021 tax bracket.

Ted Cruz suggested a 10% flat tax ... how would that work? Id pay maybe 5k less in taxes .. Kanye West would pay 5 million less in taxes.

Im not an anti flat taxer, I just dont see how it would work. Seems countries like Estonia and Ukraine use a flat tax but the US?
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Old 04-15-2021, 11:26 AM   #10
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnySide View Post


^^ projected 2021 tax bracket.

Ted Cruz suggested a 10% flat tax ... how would that work? Id pay maybe 5k less in taxes .. Kanye West would pay 5 million less in taxes.

Im not an anti flat taxer, I just dont see how it would work. Seems countries like Estonia and Ukraine use a flat tax but the US?
It would have to be higher than 10%, that's for sure. I'd imagine somewhere between 15-20% would be the landing spot.

I'm fine with people paying less in taxes. I want everyone to keep as many as their dollars as possible. As long as the system isn't gamed for cheating.
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Old 04-15-2021, 12:08 PM   #11
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

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Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001 View Post
It would have to be higher than 10%, that's for sure. I'd imagine somewhere between 15-20% would be the landing spot.

I'm fine with people paying less in taxes. I want everyone to keep as many as their dollars as possible. As long as the system isn't gamed for cheating.
If I make 86,376 next year, my payable tax is $14,751 ..

Under a 20% flat tax .. id pay $17,275.20 If my first 32k isnt taxed at all, id pay $10,875.20 ($54,376*.2)

Under a 20% flat tax where my first 32k isnt taxed .. id save $3,876 but id lose the ability to claim deductions etc so who really knows. I dont. So why even buy a house with mortgage interest, why invest in a roth ira .. you get no tax benefit from these under a flat tax (I assume)

Kanye on the other hand would save what? 5 million to 10 million per year?

Even if we do a 15% flat tax, Id save pennies compared to what the elite rich would save.

Wouldnt our tax revenue plummet?
Doesnt this just benefit the rich?
Wouldnt we have to slash all support like SS, medicare, medicaid etc .. just so Kanye can pocket 35 million instead of 30 million?

----------------

I want corporations and the elite rich to pay taxes .. instead of focusing on us under 100k people who have to grind out a living.
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Old 04-15-2021, 06:32 PM   #12
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

Russia is blocking off the Black Sea, possibly to increase it's military presence against Ukraine.
https://justthenews.com/government/s...a-kerch-strait
Quote:
The move materialized after Russia on Tuesday warned the U.S. to avoid the area "for their own good," prompting the Biden administration to cancel plans for two U.S. Navy warships to enter the Black Sea.
Don't worry though, Pres Biden knows how to handle this -
Quote:
"Now is the time to de-escalate," he said. "The way forward is through thoughtful dialogue and diplomatic process."
I am sure that makes Eastern European countries rest easy.


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Old 04-15-2021, 08:58 PM   #13
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

Of course he tucked tailed ala Obama and the Ukraine/Crimean debacle.

Watching the Middle East next...the Iran strategy is straight garbage. Obama/Biden previously handed out American billions cash which was confirmed used to support the Yemen civil war, proxies in Iraq and against oil fields in Saudi Arabia and of course the big shocker, terrorist attacks from hezbollah/hamas against Israel.

Of course some believe Israel shouldn’t pay attention to the past 10 years and let it happen all over again without recourse. Yeah, Israel is in the wrong 🤡
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Old 04-16-2021, 01:22 PM   #14
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

Russia and China ... how do you handle that? Meet their aggression and play chicken with another super power? Do nothing and let china and Russia be bullies in their regions? Sanctions that never seem to curb any behavior?

I don’t think there’s any good answer. We will probably continue to express “deep concern” and schedule a series of phone conferences.
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Old 04-16-2021, 06:50 PM   #15
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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread

Quote:
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Russia and China ... how do you handle that? Meet their aggression and play chicken with another super power? Do nothing and let china and Russia be bullies in their regions? Sanctions that never seem to curb any behavior?

I don’t think there’s any good answer. We will probably continue to express “deep concern” and schedule a series of phone conferences.
The citizens in those countries don't seem to care.
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