Grossman, Beck or-ton?

VTSkins1961 · 11-23-2011, 06:45 AM

Sign Orton, cut Beck. Play Grossman this year. Get Orton ready for next year. Draft 1 or 2 QB's next year.

SBXVII · 11-23-2011, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTSkins1961

Sign Orton, cut Beck. Play Grossman this year. Get Orton ready for next year. Draft 1 or 2 QB's next year.

This would be my game plan. I know we have many needs but I'd still take a 1st round QB and late round QB.

skinsfan69 · 11-23-2011, 07:11 AM

Orton and Grossman are basically the same guy. No thanks.

SBXVII · 11-23-2011, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Orton and Grossman are basically the same guy. No thanks.

And you are correct but Orton has a better TD/INT ratio. Ya gotta go with the better one.

mlmpetert · 11-23-2011, 09:40 AM

My thoughts are that Orton is better than Grossman. Grossman may have a better arm but has poor decision making. In our offensive i think better decision making is more important than a better arm.

We have a lot of uncertainty at the QB position next year. Grossman is a FA. We will likely be drafting a QB very high or trading a lot of picks for one. Beck will be gone. I dont even know who are PS QB is, but if Beck is still the second stringer at this point in the season i know the coaches dont have any faith in him. Even if we get Luck or RG3 at the bare minimum we need a second string QB next year, and having a vet that knows the offense would be a lot better in the development of a young guy.

Orton is a FA too, so I look at the reason we should try and get him is as a insurance policy. If he plays better then Grossman in our system then great, hopefully we can sign him to a contract and our roster is better, even if just depth. If he doesn’t then cool hes a FA and we get a supplemental pick when he signs with another team. Same thing with Grossman. Hopefully we would be able to keep one and hopefully it would be the better one. If not at least we will get 2 supplemental draft picks instead of just one.

Its real tough to get a decent FA QB right after we sign a 1st round draft pick, make a big trade for a guy or sign a big FA name like Matt Flynn. Having two chances to sign a decent guy that has familiarity with the offense but is basically conceding to the backup role is better than just one chance. And if neither work out at least we get something for our efforts and danny’s 2.5 million (money that doesn’t affect the future cap that Danny spends means absolutely nothing to me).

MTK · 11-23-2011, 09:21 AM

I'm kinda torn on this. I was in favor of trading for him prior to the season, but this late in the game and with the playoffs out of reach, I don't see the point now.

BigHairedAristocrat · 11-23-2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I'm kinda torn on this. I was in favor of trading for him prior to the season, but this late in the game and with the playoffs out of reach, I don't see the point now.

I agree, orton is really not very good. he's better than beck, but i wouldnt say he's better than grossman in this system now, and i have doubts he'd even represent a MARGINAL upgrade over grossman next year.

I say we stick with Grossman, draft a 1st round QB, draft a later-round QB, and pick up a FA QB next year. keep grossman and the 1st rounder in 2012 and then let the other two compete for a roster spot.

mlmpetert · 11-23-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I agree, orton is really not very good. he's better than beck, but i wouldnt say he's better than grossman in this system now, and i have doubts he'd even represent a MARGINAL upgrade over grossman next year.

I say we stick with Grossman, draft a 1st round QB, draft a later-round QB, and pick up a FA QB next year. keep grossman and the 1st rounder in 2012 and then let the other two compete for a roster spot.

Grossman is a FA and at the very least is gonna shop around, what if he gets a better offer or doesnt want to serve as back up to a rookie?

No one knows how Orton will compare to Grossman in our system. With the season over why not find out now and try to keep the best one for 2012? What if we are unable to get any of the QBs in the draft or FA we really want?

And if we are able to get Orton it just means Beck is gone. Thats it. Maybe if Orton shows a lot of promise he gets a couple starts at the end of the year. But not wanting Orton means that you want Beck and/or you want Grossman to go unchallenged.

MTK · 11-23-2011, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I agree, orton is really not very good. he's better than beck, but i wouldnt say he's better than grossman in this system now, and i have doubts he'd even represent a MARGINAL upgrade over grossman next year.

I say we stick with Grossman, draft a 1st round QB, draft a later-round QB, and pick up a FA QB next year. keep grossman and the 1st rounder in 2012 and then let the other two compete for a roster spot.

All things being equal Orton is definitely a better QB than Grossman. Better career numbers, better W/L %, and he simply passes the eyeball test over Grossman.

skinsfaninok · 11-23-2011, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

All things being equal Orton is definitely a better QB than Grossman. Better career numbers, better W/L %, and he simply passes the eyeball test over Grossman.

No doubt, Orton took his job lol.. I wanted KO before the season but whats the point now?

MTK · 11-23-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

No doubt, Orton took his job lol.. I wanted KO before the season but whats the point now?

For this year, it doesn't make much sense. But it makes sense if they feel he can be the guy next year until a rookie is ready. And he's definitely an upgrade over Grossman.

BigHairedAristocrat · 11-23-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

All things being equal Orton is definitely a better QB than Grossman. Better career numbers, better W/L %, and he simply passes the eyeball test over Grossman.

in a vacuum maybe, but my post related to how he would do in this system. the system is supposed to be soooo complex it takes years for a QB to integrate in it.

I certainly hope that our rookie would win the job outright in training camp next year; however, worst case senario for a 1st round QB as high as well be drafting would be starting by week 4-6. With that in mind, i highly doubt orton would perform better than grossman between now and week 4-6 of next year. and even if he could, would it really be worth taking a new stop gap in for such a short period of time?

Assuming Kyle doesnt "step down" after this season and remains our OC in 2012, id rather have grossman, an experienced QB in the system as our backup/mentor than Orton.

The one and only reason i'd think Orton would be a good idea is if we felt he had a legitimate shot to become our Franchise QB, meaning we could draft a rookie in the later rounds next year and use our early picks on something else.... like starting-caliber offensive linemen.

The Goat · 11-23-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

in a vacuum maybe, but my post related to how he would do in this system. the system is supposed to be soooo complex it takes years for a QB to integrate in it.

I bet it's a huge challenge to learn 5 total running plays, a handful of screens and downfield routes lmao...I suspect there's high school teams with more sophisticated offensive scheme.

SBXVII · 11-23-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

in a vacuum maybe, but my post related to how he would do in this system. the system is supposed to be soooo complex it takes years for a QB to integrate in it.

I certainly hope that our rookie would win the job outright in training camp next year; however, worst case senario for a 1st round QB as high as well be drafting would be starting by week 4-6. With that in mind, i highly doubt orton would perform better than grossman between now and week 4-6 of next year. and even if he could, would it really be worth taking a new stop gap in for such a short period of time?

Assuming Kyle doesnt "step down" after this season and remains our OC in 2012, id rather have grossman, an experienced QB in the system as our backup/mentor than Orton.

The one and only reason i'd think Orton would be a good idea is if we felt he had a legitimate shot to become our Franchise QB, meaning we could draft a rookie in the later rounds next year and use our early picks on something else.... like starting-caliber offensive linemen.

#1- I'd wager QB will be taken 1st round. If nothing else then to develope.

#2- It does make sense to take Orton cause god forbid the Rookie gets injured or doesn't start, you'll want a smarter more accurate QB.

#3- KS is going no where unless his father gets canned. No way will MS ruin that relationship, but MS might take over more of the OC duties while leaving the title to his son.

MTK · 11-23-2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

in a vacuum maybe, but my post related to how he would do in this system. the system is supposed to be soooo complex it takes years for a QB to integrate in it.

I certainly hope that our rookie would win the job outright in training camp next year; however, worst case senario for a 1st round QB as high as well be drafting would be starting by week 4-6. With that in mind, i highly doubt orton would perform better than grossman between now and week 4-6 of next year. and even if he could, would it really be worth taking a new stop gap in for such a short period of time?

Assuming Kyle doesnt "step down" after this season and remains our OC in 2012, id rather have grossman, an experienced QB in the system as our backup/mentor than Orton.

The one and only reason i'd think Orton would be a good idea is if we felt he had a legitimate shot to become our Franchise QB, meaning we could draft a rookie in the later rounds next year and use our early picks on something else.... like starting-caliber offensive linemen.

A full offseason and I'd bet Orton would be more proficient than Rex will ever be in this offense. Rex simply isn't a starting QB in this league. Orton is flat out the better player.

11-23-2011, 09:40 AM	#5
mlmpetert Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Richmond Posts: 3,261	Re: Grossman, Beck or-ton? My thoughts are that Orton is better than Grossman. Grossman may have a better arm but has poor decision making. In our offensive i think better decision making is more important than a better arm. We have a lot of uncertainty at the QB position next year. Grossman is a FA. We will likely be drafting a QB very high or trading a lot of picks for one. Beck will be gone. I dont even know who are PS QB is, but if Beck is still the second stringer at this point in the season i know the coaches dont have any faith in him. Even if we get Luck or RG3 at the bare minimum we need a second string QB next year, and having a vet that knows the offense would be a lot better in the development of a young guy. Orton is a FA too, so I look at the reason we should try and get him is as a insurance policy. If he plays better then Grossman in our system then great, hopefully we can sign him to a contract and our roster is better, even if just depth. If he doesn’t then cool hes a FA and we get a supplemental pick when he signs with another team. Same thing with Grossman. Hopefully we would be able to keep one and hopefully it would be the better one. If not at least we will get 2 supplemental draft picks instead of just one. Its real tough to get a decent FA QB right after we sign a 1st round draft pick, make a big trade for a guy or sign a big FA name like Matt Flynn. Having two chances to sign a decent guy that has familiarity with the offense but is basically conceding to the backup role is better than just one chance. And if neither work out at least we get something for our efforts and danny’s 2.5 million (money that doesn’t affect the future cap that Danny spends means absolutely nothing to me). __________________ www.NRABannedGunsRaffle.org Last edited by mlmpetert; 11-23-2011 at 09:43 AM.

11-23-2011, 09:21 AM	#6
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 51 Posts: 99,363	Re: Grossman, Beck or-ton? I'm kinda torn on this. I was in favor of trading for him prior to the season, but this late in the game and with the playoffs out of reach, I don't see the point now. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

11-23-2011, 06:45 AM	#1
VTSkins1961 Special Teams Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 381	Re: Grossman, Beck or-ton? Sign Orton, cut Beck. Play Grossman this year. Get Orton ready for next year. Draft 1 or 2 QB's next year.

11-23-2011, 07:11 AM	#3
skinsfan69 Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 17,135	Re: Grossman, Beck or-ton? Orton and Grossman are basically the same guy. No thanks.

Grossman, Beck or-ton?

Locker Room Main Forum