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Old 09-18-2021, 10:34 AM   #181
Chico23231
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Re: Giants postgame

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It is still early and I trust THIS coaching staff to fix/coach the shit out it.
After giving it some thought two things stand out:
1) Rookies and new players in key positions. They need time to adjust. However I know this staff will bench but not give up anyone that takes too long to develop. That is good.
2) #26. I do not like him. Expensive and one dimensional. If his cap cut number wasn’t so high he would be gone. Why would we want a safety that is not very good in coverage? We need to develop his replacement now or move Curl to SS and bring in another FS. #26 will be gone next year unless he take a big pay cut. He is a liability.
Agree, Collins need to go after the season. He seems like a peg in a square hole defense. Ron has constantly said we need position flexibility especially in the secondary. Collins seems to be the most expensive, least flexible position on the team.

He is not a fit here
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Old 09-18-2021, 11:51 AM   #182
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Re: Giants postgame

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It looks to me like poor communication, but if it happens again, that's on JDR. It looks like C2 the way WJ3 reacts, but if so why Collins came short is beyond me. If it's 2 man under, then both Collins and WJ3 screwed up. It's more likely to be Robber, but then WJ3 should be staying with the deep receiver and Collins shouldn't come up. Hence why I think its communication; one (both?) of them got the play wrong or they didn't communicate with each other to confirm the coverage responsibilities.
Good take. I thought it could simply be cover 3, with Landon effin up by wanting to make a play on the in route. Still would see no reason for WJ3 to slow down... Has anything been asked to/said by Ron and/or JDR on this one ?
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Old 09-18-2021, 01:09 PM   #183
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Re: Giants postgame

I just don't understand why they keep putting Collins out there. Enough is enough. Start Curl in his place. He's a vet and makes free agent rookie mistakes. It is just inexcusable. That play where he went for the fullback and then got outran by Jones was it for me. No more. He sucked before he got hurt and nothing has changed. The guy isn't an NFL safety and is a liability.
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Old 09-18-2021, 01:11 PM   #184
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Re: Giants postgame

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1291447]Agree, Collins need to go after the season. He seems like a peg in a square hole defense. Ron has constantly said we need position flexibility especially in the secondary. Collins seems to be the most expensive, least flexible position on the team.

He is not a fit here[/QUOTE]

He isn't a fit anywhere if you ask me....lol.
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Old 09-18-2021, 01:44 PM   #185
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Re: Giants postgame

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Good take. I thought it could simply be cover 3, with Landon effin up by wanting to make a play on the in route. Still would see no reason for WJ3 to slow down... Has anything been asked to/said by Ron and/or JDR on this one ?
Nothing I've seen. I don't think it was C3, WJ3 would have kept dropping while the S's rotated (Fuller? on the right of the D stayed short with his man and the slot/LB coverage was definitely man). The more I look at it the more I think this is on both Collins and WJ3. Everyone else seemed to stick to their assignments.
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Old 09-18-2021, 02:39 PM   #186
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Re: Giants postgame

What frustrates me are the big plays we gave up. Jones and Barkley had 2 runs totaling 87 yards. All of the Giants other rushing plays netted only 73 yards combined - less than 3 Yards per carry.

Likewise the deep ball to Slayton for a 33 yard td (and almost another) we’re badly blown coverages.

They have to clean this up - heck, take away those 3 plays, and the Giants offense would have looked pretty pathetic - it would have been only 270 yards of total offense - less than 200 yards passing and less than 75 yards rushing. And they were just bad breakdowns, not 1 on 1 matchup wins that one schemes for.

A better team than the Giants (say, the Bills) will do a better job exploiting these breakdowns and kill us if they don’t clean them up and fast.


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Old 09-18-2021, 07:43 PM   #187
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Re: Giants postgame

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What frustrates me are the big plays we gave up. Jones and Barkley had 2 runs totaling 87 yards. All of the Giants other rushing plays netted only 73 yards combined - less than 3 Yards per carry.

Likewise the deep ball to Slayton for a 33 yard td (and almost another) we’re badly blown coverages.

They have to clean this up - heck, take away those 3 plays, and the Giants offense would have looked pretty pathetic - it would have been only 270 yards of total offense - less than 200 yards passing and less than 75 yards rushing. And they were just bad breakdowns, not 1 on 1 matchup wins that one schemes for.

A better team than the Giants (say, the Bills) will do a better job exploiting these breakdowns and kill us if they don’t clean them up and fast.


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Our weakness in defending running QB's and those pass plays is the LB's (S's helping LB's instead of covering their own responsibility). I'm hoping Davis steps up sooner than later, but he's shown hints of capability (he had one lovely play in coverage vs the Giants). But Bostic is a liability until he does. I agree, KJ Wright may have made a difference to this LB corps, and I'd like to know why we didn't at least try to get him.
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Old 09-18-2021, 07:56 PM   #188
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Re: Giants postgame

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Nothing I've seen. I don't think it was C3, WJ3 would have kept dropping while the S's rotated (Fuller? on the right of the D stayed short with his man and the slot/LB coverage was definitely man). The more I look at it the more I think this is on both Collins and WJ3. Everyone else seemed to stick to their assignments.
Mark Bullock says quarter/quarter/half, good route combination against this coverage.
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Old 09-19-2021, 11:53 AM   #189
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Re: Giants postgame

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Mark Bullock says quarter/quarter/half, good route combination against this coverage.
Then arguably they both blew it, but more so WJ3, as he should have kept going deep regardless (no underneath threat to his zone). Collins didn't trust the LB to cover, so came up early. Should have read the QB, but likely also trusted WJ3 to stay on his man. Not that WJ3 could have because he'd lost leverage anyway. Lucky not to be a TD, which it would have been had Jones made a better throw.

I do wonder if they are misusing WJ3. Seems to be much more comfortable in true man coverage, as does St Juste. I know you have to mix coverages, but why use coverages that suit neither your CB's or the SS?
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Old 09-19-2021, 09:14 PM   #190
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Re: Giants postgame

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Then arguably they both blew it, but more so WJ3, as he should have kept going deep regardless (no underneath threat to his zone). Collins didn't trust the LB to cover, so came up early. Should have read the QB, but likely also trusted WJ3 to stay on his man. Not that WJ3 could have because he'd lost leverage anyway. Lucky not to be a TD, which it would have been had Jones made a better throw.



I do wonder if they are misusing WJ3. Seems to be much more comfortable in true man coverage, as does St Juste. I know you have to mix coverages, but why use coverages that suit neither your CB's or the SS?
This is why I think the D will get better. Del Rio will adjust to his personnel whereas training camp and preseason is trying to get them comfortable in his. That said, the Bills are going to eat this Defense alive.

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Old 09-20-2021, 01:28 AM   #191
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Re: Giants postgame

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This is why I think the D will get better. Del Rio will adjust to his personnel whereas training camp and preseason is trying to get them comfortable in his. That said, the Bills are going to eat this Defense alive.

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I actually don't know if Ron and JDR are gonna change anything to their scheme. I heard Ron several times saying how he needs guys to play their responsibilities. That guys were free lancing. And maybe he's right (ie on the CB blitz sack by Fuller, CY almost tripped him because he wanted to make a play instead of going inside on the LT to clean the way). Plus he said from day want he wanted things done his way, that he'll take all the blame if it goes wrong as long as guys do it his way. Coach centric approach.
And Jack seems like a tough mind too, so not sure either of them changes anything before players do exactly as their told.
Maybe it'll work that way, we'll see.

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Old 09-20-2021, 06:48 AM   #192
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Re: Giants postgame

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I actually don't know if Ron and JDR are gonna change anything to their scheme. I heard Ron several times saying how he needs guys to play their responsibilities. That guys were free lancing. And maybe he's right (ie on the CB blitz sack by Fuller, CY almost tripped him because he wanted to make a play instead of going inside on the LT to clean the way). Plus he said from day want he wanted things done his way, that he'll take all the blame if it goes wrong as long as guys do it his way. Coach centric approach.
And Jack seems like a tough mind too, so not sure either of them changes anything before players do exactly as their told.
Maybe it'll work that way, we'll see.

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Yeah, you are right. But I do think they will use the game tape to clarify expectations and roles. I also think they have to have some level of adaptability on the coaching side, but like you said, they may not have that.

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Old 09-20-2021, 08:03 AM   #193
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Re: Giants postgame

On either side of the ball, the way to coach is to bring in players that fit/improve your scheme, or build a scheme that caters to the strengths of your players. Seems this coaching staff has been trying the former as I haven't seen a great deal of adapting schemes over the last 2 years. It seems more like they are trying to build sustainable schemes and picking the players accordingly. But then they have gone after or retained the odd player that doesn't seem, to fit the scheme, like Collins. I'm not sure WJ3 is one of those guys yet, or if its teething troubles with new starters on D not yet gelling. But it needs fixing quickly.

Strangely enough, it seems like after 2 games its the D that needs more fixing than the O (thought that still needs work).
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Old 09-20-2021, 08:26 AM   #194
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Re: Giants postgame

When it comes to our defense, it does have the ability to get better, but we need to move some pieces around.

Going into the off-season, most here correctly observed we needed a rangy free safety and more talent at LB.

We have the cap space. I don’t the new front office did a good job, hopefully they will prove me wrong by years end.
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Old 09-20-2021, 08:42 AM   #195
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Re: Giants postgame

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I actually don't know if Ron and JDR are gonna change anything to their scheme. I heard Ron several times saying how he needs guys to play their responsibilities. That guys were free lancing. And maybe he's right (ie on the CB blitz sack by Fuller, CY almost tripped him because he wanted to make a play instead of going inside on the LT to clean the way). Plus he said from day want he wanted things done his way, that he'll take all the blame if it goes wrong as long as guys do it his way. Coach centric approach.
And Jack seems like a tough mind too, so not sure either of them changes anything before players do exactly as their told.
Maybe it'll work that way, we'll see.

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Do your job. Collins hasn't done his job since he has been here. And then watching him get out ran by Jones is laughable.

As far as Del Rio idk, when it is 3rd and 16 and you haven't been getting pressure all day I feel like you have to send a blitz, get Herbert to throw it quickly and make a tackle. Instead he rushed 4 and let Herbert pat the ball and make an accurate throw, while the db's looked lost in zone.
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