To 2021 and Beyond .... current politics

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Was coming in here to point out the comedy of a bunch of dudes deciding what is best for women. I am sure they will be taking all of our advice into consideration. Lol.

No one is deciding what is best for women. Well except the approximate 50% of abortions that are baby girls.

The debate about abortion is about the baby being given life or death. And whether either parent has the right to kill their baby because it's best for them. Doing what is best for you at the harm to someone else is being selfish.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

No one is deciding what is best for women. Well except the approximate 50% of abortions that are baby girls.

The debate about abortion is about the baby being given life or death. And whether either parent has the right to kill their baby because it's best for them. Doing what is best for you at the harm to someone else is being selfish.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, in my uneducated opinion the vast majority of abortions are performed while the fetus is nothing more than a pile of tissue, and the ones done later than that are mostly done for medical reasons. That's good enough for me.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by mooby

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, in my uneducated opinion the vast majority of abortions are performed while the fetus is nothing more than a pile of tissue, and the ones done later than that are mostly done for medical reasons. That's good enough for me.

This whole post = Fair enough

Bolded Section:

This is where the differences of opinion come from. Depending on what you feel about the very early stages of life, will likely be what influences your opinion about abortions that are done for non-medical/rape/incest reasons. It definitely does for mine. I disagree with your stance but that's OK that we disagree.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

No one is deciding what is best for women. Well except the approximate 50% of abortions that are baby girls.



The debate about abortion is about the baby being given life or death. And whether either parent has the right to kill their baby because it's best for them. Doing what is best for you at the harm to someone else is being selfish.

Since my last post I still have the same equipment so I will continue to stay out of this discussion.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

No one is deciding what is best for women. Well except the approximate 50% of abortions that are baby girls.

The debate about abortion is about the baby being given life or death. And whether either parent has the right to kill their baby because it's best for them. Doing what is best for you at the harm to someone else is being selfish.

That's BS .

[MTK]

^^ I second that, as a guy I think we should say the F out of reproductive rights issues.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by MTK

^^ I second that, as a guy I think we should say the F out of reproductive rights issues.

+2

Imagine the outcry if women tried to pass a law restricting men's reproductive rights, they would immediately be ridiculed and ostracized (deservedly so).

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by mooby

+2

Imagine the outcry if women tried to pass a law restricting men's reproductive rights, they would immediately be ridiculed and ostracized (deservedly so).

Bingo! Johnny tell the Man what he has won!

[sdskinsfan2001]

Chico?? Buehler? Buehler???

I actually finally drove up to check in on a buddy this week that just completely disappeared off the grid. Like had to sneak in thru the gate when someone left. Haven't heard from him since before Christmas. Turns out he was perfectly fine and chose to just disappear and not let any of us know he wasn't talking to us anymore.

COVID has me thinking worst case scenario when someone's actions change. Chico, hope all is well.

JamF has spurts of posting regularly, then not very often. Haven't heard from him in a while either. Hopefully my fellow so-cal brother is also doing well.

Hope everyone else is doing well too. Hopefully we're all finally on the path towards normalcy, or at least the new normalcy. I'd go watch Britney Spears in concert at this point.

[sdskinsfan2001]

How is allowing abortions about re-productive rights? Women and men in this country have all the re-productive rights in the world to: be celebate; if you have sex, be smart, etc, etc.

The term 'Re" in general would imply you're trying to replicate something. Reproduction would imply you're trying to re-create life. Not kill life.

Abortion is the exact opposite of reproducing or reproductive.

I'd also say that allowing women to have 100% control over aborting her and the father's baby, is a law against men's "reproductive" rights. Believe it or not, only the woman mother can still actually physically birth children, but the male dad is still the dad. Why does his opinion not matter? Or what if the dad wants the abortion, but the mom doesn't, if she (rightfully) chooses life, does he have absolutely zero responsibility for raising the child, at least financially? Of-fucking-course not.

All this talk about the extremes is just that. Most abortions are done early and due to one or both people not wanting to be accountable for his/her/their decisions. I'd guess that men are more responsible for this. And that's sad, but the other alternative isn't better either.

#life

[mooby]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

How is allowing abortions about re-productive rights? Women and men in this country have all the re-productive rights in the world to: be celebate; if you have sex, be smart, etc, etc.

The term 'Re" in general would imply you're trying to replicate something. Reproduction would imply you're trying to re-create life. Not kill life.

Abortion is the exact opposite of reproducing or reproductive.

I'd also say that allowing women to have 100% control over aborting her and the father's baby, is a law against men's "reproductive" rights. Believe it or not, only the woman mother can still actually physically birth children, but the male dad is still the dad. Why does his opinion not matter? Or what if the dad wants the abortion, but the mom doesn't, if she (rightfully) chooses life, does he have absolutely zero responsibility for raising the child, at least financially? Of-fucking-course not.

All this talk about the extremes is just that. Most abortions are done early and due to one or both people not wanting to be accountable for his/her/their decisions. I'd guess that men are more responsible for this. And that's sad, but the other alternative isn't better either.

#life

We're not here to argue semantics, reproductive rights is just a term used to talk about abortion.

The hilarious thing about this argument is I doubt you'd find anyone on this board who thinks a woman should be allowed to get a third trimester abortion for no reason at all. Of course at that stage it should only be if the woman or baby's life is at risk. But the reality is you have some people on your team that want all abortion outlawed. They have no interest in conceding anything. They intentionally left out exceptions for rape or incest in Arkansas, how the fuck is that having this debate in good faith? It's not. So they can go fuck themselves, and if any conservative wants to fight the good fight with them they know where they stand too.

Yes the dad's opinion should matter but that's a more nuanced argument. If the woman doesn't want an abortion but the guy makes it clear from the start he's not going to support her or the kid she should know what she's getting into. But I put blame on the dad too for not wanting to wrap it up while he's getting some ass. We know the risks when we choose not to wear a condom. #pulloutgamestrong

+1 hope Chico is okay too.

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by mooby

……..

The hilarious thing about this argument is I doubt you'd find anyone on this board who thinks a woman should be allowed to get a third trimester abortion for no reason at all. Of course at that stage it should only be if the woman or baby's life is at risk. ………...

And yet about 3000 late term pregnancies get aborted when the woman's life is not at risk and the fetus healthy. I'm counted as part of the majority of Americans as pro-choice but I have a big problem with what is currently legal.

(I wouldn't restrict abortions prior to 18 weeks - the record for a pre-mature birth surviving is 21 weeks)

[mooby]

Originally Posted by nonniey

And yet about 3000 late term pregnancies get aborted when the woman's life is not at risk and the fetus healthy. I'm counted as part of the majority of Americans as pro-choice but I have a big problem with what is currently legal.

(I wouldn't restrict abortions prior to 18 weeks - the record for a pre-mature birth surviving is 21 weeks)

Source?

Just googling I came up with this:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...nd-how-it-wont

But I haven't seen any source that says 3000 late term pregnancies were aborted for no legitimate medical reason. Also what do you define as late term?

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by mooby

Source?

Just googling I came up with this:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...nd-how-it-wont

But I haven't seen any source that says 3000 late term pregnancies were aborted for no legitimate medical reason. Also what do you define as late term?

Well this source I attached indicates it may be significantly higher than 3000 but I will continue to look for the source I was looking at yesterday (Which was also referencing CDC data. I also posted the CDC link at the bottom - bit of a slog to work thru. Oh and 20 weeks is how I define it (note premature babies have survived at 21 weeks).


http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...rtion_usa.html

"Abstract: Available data are sufficient to refute some claims regarding late-term abortions in the United States ("late-term" abortions here referring to abortions at >20 weeks' gestation). Here we use official data (from the Centers for Disease Control and state health agencies) to develop estimates of such abortions for 2005 to 2018. For the year 2018, best estimates (and plausible ranges in parentheses) for such abortions are: 11,500 (9,100 to 15,400) at >20 weeks' gestation; 900 (400 to 1,600) at >24 weeks' gestation; and 160 (50 to 260) at >28 weeks' gestation. There were significant changes in the top states for percentages of late abortions in 2005-2018, reflecting relocations of late-term abortion "services". Based on information reported by Arizona, Florida, and Utah, probably 30-80% of late-term abortions are "elective" (non-health related), 20-60% are in cases of fetal health issues, and only 3-10% are in cases of maternal health. These figures are generally consistent with those reported both in Guttmacher Institute surveys and in past testimony by individuals who perform such abortions. Estimated current annual revenue to the abortion industry from late-term abortions is about $20,000,000 ($12,000,000 to $40,000,000). Abortion on demand (i.e. for elective reasons) at any point in pregnancy through birth is currently permitted in 7 states, placing the United States among only four countries in the world with policies this extreme. However, since abortion practice in some countries is inconsistent with their respective laws, actual levels of late-term abortions are comparable between the United States and a number of developed countries. "


CDC abortion surveillance report link.

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductiveheal...s/abortion.htm

[nonniey]

Data showing most late term abortions are elective. This surprised me as l thought most would have been done due to serious health reasons of either the mother or fetus.

--------------------------------------------
Note Guttenmacher is a pro-choice/pro-abortion organization. (They explain why most are elective in this link).

https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/...after-20-weeks.

"….Women aged 20–24 were more likely than those aged 25–34 to have a later abortion (odds ratio, 2.7), and women who discovered their pregnancy before eight weeks’ gestation were less likely than others to do so (0.1). Later abortion recipients experienced logistical delays (e.g., difficulty finding a provider and raising funds for the procedure and travel costs), which compounded other delays in receiving care. Most women seeking later abortion fit at least one of five profiles: They were raising children alone, were depressed or using illicit substances, were in conflict with a male partner or experiencing domestic violence, had trouble deciding and then had access problems, or were young and nulliparous.

CONCLUSION: Bans on abortion after 20 weeks will disproportionately affect young women and women with limited financial resources."

---------------------------------------
Lozier institute

https://lozierinstitute.org/science-...ment.%E2%80%9D

"An op-ed entitled “Late-Term Abortion and Medical Necessity: A Failure of Science” by Dr. James Studnicki published in the peer-reviewed journal Health Services Research and Managerial Epidemiology argues against the necessity of late-term abortion and why abortion data and research are inadequate. In explaining why women electively choose late-term abortions, Studnicki even cites pro-abortion Guttmacher Institute, writing:"

“Most late-term abortions are elective, done on healthy women with healthy fetuses, and for the same reasons given by women experiencing first trimester abortions. The Guttmacher Institute has provided a number of reports over two decades which have identified the reasons why women choose abortion, and they have consistently reported that childbearing would interfere with their education, work, and ability to care for existing dependents; would be a financial burden; and would disrupt partner relationships. A more recent Guttmacher study focused on abortions after 20 weeks of gestation and similarly concluded that women seeking late-term abortions were not doing so for reasons of fetal anomaly or life endangerment.”