The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread

[MissouriSkin]

Sorry but y’all freaking out waaayyyy too much on giving Scherff a few million more than you want, esp given the cap space we have. It’s really not that big of a deal.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by MissouriSkin

Rewatch the Ram game with Martin vs Donald and get back to us.

Yeah, that’s a fair comparison I guess to bring up the most dominant D lineman in the entire league who makes even all-pro offensive linemen look like turnstiles. Nope...

[MissouriSkin]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

Yeah, that’s a fair comparison I guess to bring up the most dominant D lineman in the entire league who makes even all-pro offensive linemen look like turnstiles. Nope...

Actually it is. Since some think “guards aren’t important” then just anyone can be plugged in there. Hell someone else said guards don’t matter, just take our backup tackles and just plug them in there because anyone can do it. People have some funny ideas about football.

[MissouriSkin]

And it’s all good, we can agree to disagree. Again, I just think people are blowing out of proportion the effect of paying Scherff and extra few million this year considering the cap space we have and he still might sign a long term deal. Also still don’t understand people clamoring for us to sign our own and then complaining when we do because it costs money.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Elite players get paid elite money. It is what it is. He's not just a guard, and you can't just plug in any guy to that position and think this offensive line will be remotely the same.

I'm glad they are bringing him back, even if only for one more year.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by MissouriSkin

Actually it is. Since some think “guards aren’t important” then just anyone can be plugged in there. Hell someone else said guards don’t matter, just take our backup tackles and just plug them in there because anyone can do it. People have some funny ideas about football.

I’m not saying guards aren’t important. They are. But the cap gives you finite resources and I’m just trying to weight the cost/benefit ratio of top pay for a guard vs top pay for another position group. It sounds like we both agree that games are won in the trenches, and good line play leads to everything else being successful, so I’m. It upset about Scherff, just trying to look at it from both ways.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by Ohioskins

Yes, we should let Scherff walk. After all, All Pro Guards are so easy to replace ??????

Scherff is 10% of our cap this year. The best guard I ever saw was Larry Allen, he was worlds better than Scherff. A guy like Allen maybe worth 10% of salary cap, no way Scherff, especially given injury history.

All Pro players are not easy to replace, but that is not the point. Guard is not a decisive position, not a high leverage position. No one ever added a RG and said, man, we're a contender now. You can find a player with a steep drop off from Scherff who is still serviceable for $14M a year minimum less, and a solid 3rd round pick for $17M a year less. The question is not, is Brandon Scherff a great player. Of course he is. The question is, is a RG on a team with holes everywhere, with a major injury history, a smart signing given where this team is at?

The answer is no. Scherff was perpetually injured in prime of his career, it isn't going to magically get better on the wrong side of 30.

The guys you want making $18M a year on your offense are a QB, a stud WR, a LT. The guys you want making $10M on your offense are maybe an elite TE, a RT, a C, perhaps a #2 WR. It doesn't matter if Scherff is the best guard to ever play the game, having a RG worlds better than the alternative option does not transform your O the way other more important positions do.
Having a WR, QB, or LT that is worlds better than alternative does transform your O. It is that simple. We should not invest so much in such a low leverage position when we have long term needs at both Ts, QB, etc. EVERY starter on OL is on non-rookie deal. Not sustainable financially.

I honestly believe we tagged Scherff hoping to work out long term deal. I suspect sticking point much more than annual money, but rather length, injury guarantees, etc. We could be on the hook for a PILE of money long term for a player who has historically played about a third of snaps, is hurt one third of time, and not ridiculous to think that will be half the time as he ages. Even if he stays healthy and dominates, he is at the absolute least important position on the entire offense. We are building O bass ackwards.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

I’m not saying guards aren’t important. They are. But the cap gives you finite resources and I’m just trying to weight the cost/benefit ratio of top pay for a guard vs top pay for another position group. It sounds like we both agree that games are won in the trenches, and good line play leads to everything else being successful, so I’m. It upset about Scherff, just trying to look at it from both ways.

Precisely. When we played better teams we got torched on the edge. Moses has always been a liability there, and Lucas was average maybe slightly above. Certainly not a disaster and serviceable, but certainly not the guy you trust long term to keep your franchise QB's limbs from being broken like wishbones.

Guards ARE less important than most other positions on O. You can find a Lucas-like G anywhere. Guards work in confined spaces mostly, which is a WAY easier skill set than guarding the edges, or snapping the bull and then fending off a bull rusher (center).

I agree you build the trenches first. Starting with LT, then C, then RT, then Gs.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by MissouriSkin

And it’s all good, we can agree to disagree. Again, I just think people are blowing out of proportion the effect of paying Scherff and extra few million this year considering the cap space we have and he still might sign a long term deal. Also still don’t understand people clamoring for us to sign our own and then complaining when we do because it costs money.

Let's say we paid some average FA guard $4M. I think you can find one in a draft deep on OL or sign one $2M or less, but say double that. That $14M, rolled over to next year, is the difference between keeping Allen or letting him walk.

If we are just letting Scherff walk, then makes much more sense to use that money to lock up Allen or a young stud long term and sign a cheap replacement or draft one.

Scherff now has ALL the leverage in negotiations, as long as he stays healthy. We will probably end up paying $14M a year with more years and more guarantees than are prudential. A RG simply is not worth that kind of money, ESPECIALLY one who can't stay healthy.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Scalper

Let's say we paid some average FA guard $4M. I think you can find one in a draft deep on OL or sign one $2M or less, but say double that. That $14M, rolled over to next year, is the difference between keeping Allen or letting him walk.

If we are just letting Scherff walk, then makes much more sense to use that money to lock up Allen or a young stud long term and sign a cheap replacement or draft one.

Scherff now has ALL the leverage in negotiations, as long as he stays healthy. We will probably end up paying $14M a year with more years and more guarantees than are prudential. A RG simply is not worth that kind of money, ESPECIALLY one who can't stay healthy.

Hell we don't even need to find some average FA guard. Just plug Wes Martin in and let's go. If guard really is the easiest position to play he should do just fine.

[Pervis_Griffith]

Originally Posted by mooby

Hell we don't even need to find some average FA guard. Just plug Wes Martin in and let's go. If guard really is the easiest position to play he should do just fine.

Completely missing the point ....

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Pervis_Griffith

Completely missing the point ....

The point is that guard must be the easiest goddamn position to play in the NFL the way everyone here talks about it.

Nobody is saying pay Scherff 18 million a year for 5 years. But our first first-team All-Pro in 24 years deserves to be paid. Negotiate and if he'll play for 4-5 years at 15 mill AAV do the deal. If not let him walk next year. I swear some of ya'll just think we can go creating a never-ending supply of roster holes because you're too cheap to pay guys that deserve it.

Kicker sucks? Cut him, the next guy is always better.
Guard is All-Pro? Let him walk, we can do just as good for half as much.
Hole at qb? One of these undrafted free agents gotta be good.

Ya'll trying to win a fucking Super Bowl with an entire roster of no-names. Fucking weak.

[CRedskinsRule]

While I hope a long term deal gets done, this tag doesn't have the same feel as the KC tag. To me, this is acknowledging that Scherff is an AllPro, and we want him. Obviously, we have a professional FO now, so there are no leaks, innuendos, or mispronounced names. The difference in cost is somewhere in the 4 Million mark to get someone fairly close and not open a huge gap. So pay your own guy, make every effort to get a long term deal, and have an exit plan in place if he doesn't sign. That sets a tone for the league and our team to know that if you perform, the team is willing to recognize that, but also going to be making decisions that are in the team's interest as well.

At least that's my hope.

[EdmundDorf]

The difference this year will be over $10m. I am not in the camp of you can just find a guard anywhere or that Scherrf is totally replaceable, but you have to manage your resources. You could sign one of the many very good available free agent Guards right now for a $5m one year deal or a $10mpy 3 year deal which would have a cap hit of $5m in this cap year. Having Scherrf play on $18m and likely not coming back net year is not a good use of resource. If there is truly a mutual interest then they will get a deal done soon, if not you need to be making other plans for the future by the time the draft roles around. I think that Scherrf is content to play on the tag, which is not good for the WFT. But I would hope that the FO is aware if that is the case

[KI Skins Fan]

If healthy, Charles will be our LG. I think he can be a very good NFL player. We'll probably draft an OT. We already have some good backups. I think we can have a solid OL this season.

p.s. Scherff has been tagged, which means there's no room for debate about what he is worth to the WFT. It's done. Ovah! We now know what he is worth to the WFT brass. Please move on from this tiresome debate.