Marty Hurney Thread

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Watch the video.

I'm 10 minutes in, is there a specific part you'd like me to watch?

It sounds like he thought it was a collaborative effort with Ron, maybe it wasn't? Maybe Ron told him to fall in line? Idk. It doesn't rule out the scenario I laid out though, if they had philosophical differences in how to build the team it wouldn't be a surprise that Kyle is out.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by mooby

I'm 10 minutes in, is there a specific part you'd like me to watch?

It sounds like he thought it was a collaborative effort with Ron, maybe it wasn't? Maybe Ron told him to fall in line? Idk. It doesn't rule out the scenario I laid out though, if they had philosophical differences in how to build the team it wouldn't be a surprise that Kyle is out.

Sounded like they had a good working relationship, with Ron telling he’s doing a good job, basically blowing sunshine up his ass. So then what happened there if things were so good?

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Sounded like they had a good working relationship, with Ron telling he’s doing a good job, basically blowing sunshine up his ass. So then what happened there if things were so good?

Look at the history of THE DAN. By year 2 or 3, he ALWAYS meddles. ALWAYS. You think Riviera didn't call the Shanny Clan and others and get the real story and learn what a turd THE DAN is? Its always all hugs and kisses year one or two, and then THE DAN meddles. ALWAYS. Don't believe the BS that this has somehow magically changed. RR has to be sure he has someone he can trust, not Snyder yes men, so he has intel from someone he has known forever and can trust when the meddling begins. How does he know if THE DAN goes to some scout and says give PLAYER X a good scouting report and champion him to RR or you are fired? Ron's only protection against THE DAN is to bring his own guys in. There is some desire to do this anyway, but this propensity becomes a need with THE DAN. RR is not dumb and has no illusions that THE DAN will not revert to his long-term behavior trends once the honeymoon is over. Every human being does.

THE DAN tax, on franchise success, is never ending. We are tossing out a brilliant young GM in the making, and probably the bulk of his scouting staff, for two retreads. Cam Newton has been a failure, especially when it comes to character. He takes all the glory when things are good, and blames everyone else like a ten-year old when things are bad. Locker Room cancer. He was also never very accurate and lacked the humility to work to become a more accurate passer. So we now have the regime that whiffed on Newton picking our next QB. Smith isn't the only talented GM or scout in the league, but I would argue a great GM is more important than a great coach. A great coach can't win without talent the GM provides, but a good coach can win with a lot of talent. So we again have it backwards. Letting the coach buy the groceries, directly or indirectly, doesn't work in most cases. You can't have a GM that is the lackey of the coach. He has to be the equal of the coach, or the boss of the coach. Mayhew and Hurney are average at best in terms of their personnel track records. They are not horrific hires, but neither are they brilliant hires, and the best teams, especially those good year in and out, have brilliant GMs. We are letting a potentially brilliant GM go to bring in two mediocre GMs who are retreads and nothing more.

What you would expect is another great draft this year because Smith has largely run it and done the scouting, though he may be overruled by RR and Co., him to leave for somewhere else later in year or year after latest, and then draft prowess to drop appreciably after. I could be wrong, but that is what you would expect. Smith may be too young to be GM, but he should have at minimum been promoted to assistant GM and given huge pay raise to keep him here. We have no idea what is happening behind scenes, whether divergent philosophies, but a huge portion of it has to be setting up a rampart against meddling by THE DAN.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Scalper

Look at the history of THE DAN. By year 2 or 3, he ALWAYS meddles. ALWAYS. You think Riviera didn't call the Shanny Clan and others and get the real story and learn what a turd THE DAN is? Its always all hugs and kisses year one or two, and then THE DAN meddles. ALWAYS. Don't believe the BS that this has somehow magically changed. RR has to be sure he has someone he can trust, not Snyder yes men, so he has intel from someone he has known forever and can trust when the meddling begins. How does he know if THE DAN goes to some scout and says give PLAYER X a good scouting report and champion him to RR or you are fired? Ron's only protection against THE DAN is to bring his own guys in. There is some desire to do this anyway, but this propensity becomes a need with THE DAN. RR is not dumb and has no illusions that THE DAN will not revert to his long-term behavior trends once the honeymoon is over. Every human being does.

THE DAN tax, on franchise success, is never ending. We are tossing out a brilliant young GM in the making, and probably the bulk of his scouting staff, for two retreads. Cam Newton has been a failure, especially when it comes to character. He takes all the glory when things are good, and blames everyone else like a ten-year old when things are bad. Locker Room cancer. He was also never very accurate and lacked the humility to work to become a more accurate passer. So we now have the regime that whiffed on Newton picking our next QB. Smith isn't the only talented GM or scout in the league, but I would argue a great GM is more important than a great coach. A great coach can't win without talent the GM provides, but a good coach can win with a lot of talent. So we again have it backwards. Letting the coach buy the groceries, directly or indirectly, doesn't work in most cases. You can't have a GM that is the lackey of the coach. He has to be the equal of the coach, or the boss of the coach. Mayhew and Hurney are average at best in terms of their personnel track records. They are not horrific hires, but neither are they brilliant hires, and the best teams, especially those good year in and out, have brilliant GMs. We are letting a potentially brilliant GM go to bring in two mediocre GMs who are retreads and nothing more.

What you would expect is another great draft this year because Smith has largely run it and done the scouting, though he may be overruled by RR and Co., him to leave for somewhere else later in year or year after latest, and then draft prowess to drop appreciably after. I could be wrong, but that is what you would expect. Smith may be too young to be GM, but he should have at minimum been promoted to assistant GM and given huge pay raise to keep him here. We have no idea what is happening behind scenes, whether divergent philosophies, but a huge portion of it has to be setting up a rampart against meddling by THE DAN.

Actually Danny knew what he had in Smith and liked him, I think Ron forced his hand on this one.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Actually Danny knew what he had in Smith and liked him, I think Ron forced his hand on this one.

That's the whole point.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Scalper

That's the whole point.

So what was he supposed to do? Say, “hey Ron we are keeping Kyle”. He wouldn’t dare question Ron.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

So what was he supposed to do? Say, “hey Ron we are keeping Kyle”. He wouldn’t dare question Ron.

THE DAN had no choice but to cede a very good but not great coach more power than he should have because this is the only way he would take the job. This is because THE DAN has such a bad reputation for obvious reasons we need not revisit. Short version, THE DAN ALWAYS meddles, so no good coach will take job without such power, especially after way Shanny was cornholed. Shanny was same problem as RR, a talented coach given too much FO and personnel power, and then meddled when it didn't produce the results. We are thus hostage to the meddling of THE DAN even now.

The point is, there has to be someone in the organization questioning the head coach, as even very good coaches usually are not personnel gurus and often become emotional about personnel decisions, making poor decisions out of a well-intended desire to win and the belief that they can coach guys up. You need a GM above the coach with the power to enforce the long view--like saying no to mortgaging the future yet again. With the talent Smith has acquired, and his pedigree, there should have been someone saying keep him over Hurney and Mayhew. I would much rather have Smith making long-term personnel decisions than RR, Hurney, and Mayhew. Organizations usually segregate these two roles and place the GM above the coach for very good reason, though in the best organizations the GM and coach work together without the GM being the bitch of the coach.

Saying that something is an improvement over past, as bad as this organization has been, does not mean it gets us where we need to be.