John McCain: What Went Wrong?

The NYT is definitely as lefty as can be, but this admin has dug their own hole. I find it hard to feel sorry for them.

Strangely firstdown, the few folks I know in the military told me how low morale was. One was on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border in firefights every night. Said morale was ass, a common question was why are we still here. Luckily he's home now. Another family member went to Iraq for two tours in a amphibious vehicle and said the morale wasn't great.

There's a big difference between supporting a war and supporting the troops. I don't think anyone seriously doesn't support our troops. For the most part they do what they're told. Unless they torture criminals like that one ugly bitch who made them stand in a pyramid and shit (who should go to jail for 30+ years, all of them) I've seen nothing but respect for the soldiers.

It's real American for us to say "They're there. Just deal with it and don't report how many people die per day." There was a large sect of people during the American Revolution that was too worried about hurting Britain's feelings and didn't want to cause any trouble. Who hated publications such as Common Sense. Glad we didn't listen to them, and I hope we don't listen to them again. You can't force 'freedom' on people. If people want freedom and ask for help, fine. We'll be seen as nothing but oppressors and destroyers as long as we're there. The quicker we realize that the better.

I understand that, its the way the paper seems to go out of its way to find anything negative to report. Where is the out cry from them about our cities that have a higher American murder rate than in a war zone? The lose of any of these young men is one to many but we have even a worse problem in many of our own cities. Maybe its because they are run by democate mayors? Who knows. I'd love to see our guys come home today but that not going to happen. While they are there we need to give them the support they need amd not all of this everyday negative stuff we get from the news. If people don't think all this negative reporting does not embolding the enimy they are crazy. They know what is reported and it gives them even more hope that we Americans will give up the fight. Its well known that the leaders of the insugency say that America is weak and will give up the fight before they do. Leaving us exposed to even more violence. Believe in the war or not we have to keep tings more positive. Just talk to our local service men in our area and they are all sick of what they hear day in and day out from our news and media.

Hey, I grew up in the inner city of D.C. during the 80s and then went off to the first Gulf War a couple of years after high school. I spent 4 yrs on a Naval vessel which was deployed to the Persian Gulf. So you're preaching to the choir on the murder rate of our inner cities vs. the virtues of fighting a war.

I probably know of more 'street casualties' than I really care to talk about. But your point is certainly well taken. It's just that we live in a culture that, unfortunately, places a premium on what's news worthy and what isn't.

I feel your passion, bro, I really do. But there are no real positives in war. The events of 9/11 made our country very emotional and we stood behind President Bush 110% when he declared war on Iraq. And for the most part, even when things began to unravel, we still said, let's do the patriotic thing and support our leader. However, at some point reason and blind loyalty have to give way to truth and facts. Now that the facts have surfaced little by little, the media now feels justified in taking shots at Bush and his cabinet. People that stood with him in the beginning are now distancing themselves from him. They now stand in stark contrast to the individuals that 'went to war' with Bush in the beginning.

The media, in many cases, are simply echoing what's coming out of Bush's own house, so to speak.

Iraq was a war the first 15 days and after the first few days it became a quagmire. I fail to see how we can possibly "win" this "war."

Hey, I grew up in the inner city of D.C. during the 80s and then went off to the first Gulf War a couple of years after high school. I spent 4 yrs on a Naval vessel which was deployed to the Persian Gulf. So you're preaching to the choir on the murder rate of our inner cities vs. the virtues of fighting a war.

I probably know of more 'street casualties' than I really care to talk about. But your point is certainly well taken. It's just that we live in a culture that, unfortunately, places a premium on what's news worthy and what isn't.

I feel your passion, bro, I really do. But there are no real positives in war. The events of 9/11 made our country very emotional and we stood behind President Bush 110% when he declared war on Iraq. And for the most part, even when things began to unravel, we still said, let's do the patriotic thing and support our leader. However, at some point reason and blind loyalty have to give way to truth and facts. Now that the facts have surfaced little by little, the media now feels justified in taking shots at Bush and his cabinet. People that stood with him in the beginning are now distancing themselves from him. They now stand in stark contrast to the individuals that 'went to war' with Bush in the beginning.

The media, in many cases, are simply echoing what's coming out of Bush's own house, so to speak.
I'm not saying in any ways to give the administration a free ride but bashing everthing that goes on is not good for us or the troops. Yes not many positives in any war but as in most bad situations there are always so many good stories of man helping man etc... When was the last time that anything positive was reported about Iraq, schools opening, the other 90% of Iraq (not Bagdad) where people are living normal lives etc... Its just not fair to our troops to leave out all the positive stories and its human nature to feel good about yourself when you hear positive thing on what your doing. I'm not sying ignore the negative stuff but just give us some balance to the story.

Deseal, i have a very large military customer base and live beside a home rented to four guys with a total of 10 tours over there. All seem pretty positive and yes I have heard some negative stuff. The guys next door all hate the media's reporting and say that its a very common feeling among the troops. I had this issue before on this site and I think (it was you) who was surprised by stuff I linked because the media gave such a negative view.

McCain overstated things, just like most Dems overstate how bad things are. I swear that sometimes the anti-war "get us out of Iraq's Civil War and get us into Darfur's Civil War" crowd salivates every time some bomb goes off in Baghdad.

I was floored when he said conditions in Iraq are improving. When is someone going to step up to the damn plate and say we're screwed, bring our boys home.

Even Dems on the Hill concede that Gen. Petraeus and the surge seem to be having a positive effect in Iraq, at least for now.

I certainly understand why many people think Iraq is a lost cause and it may very well be. However, when will such people actually stand up and say "We surrender?" I think we should either stay and fight, or leave immediately, because a half-assed policy of a slow withdrawal is the worst of both worlds. Yet Dems are not willing to call for an immediate withdrawal because they are scared of the political consequences of doing so.

You the man SGG! Get in it or get out!


Wars Suck! Were Americans, and we are going to continue to fight them from time to time.
For those of you that think we should pull out, what do you think will happen if we did it tomorrow? For that matter, if we pull out any time before the Iraqi good guys are in charge? Do you think the bad guys have had enough and will go away.
It will be a HUGE victory for the Jihadi's everywhere. If not crippled or under some kind of control, we'll be enjoying 911 type episodes routinely. We can fight these guys on their soil or OURS, which do you want?
Bush said from the beginning, we are in this for the long haul. That is what he meant. As in on-going. It makes it hard for them to mobilize large scale operations elsewhere if they are spending their resources trying to keep us at bay in Iraq, Afganistan, etc.
I do not agree with many things Bush has done, but he has kept 9-11 from happening again. He has had the courage to continue his support of the war and the troops to that end. It has, and continues to cost his dearly.
I have had several conversations with current and former American warriors assigned to Iraq. They don't tell the same story the media does (imagine that). According to them, it is the 10% of Iraqi's that make the headlines about not wanting us there, the war is BS , hurting their country, etc. The rank and file Iraqi hates Sadam, and the radical Jihadi's. Would you not? They are afraid of being killed along with their families if they speak or act up. That sort of thing rarely makes the news.
Like it or not, some kind of action is required. If not the war in Iraq, what do you want to do?

Hey, I grew up in the inner city of D.C. during the 80s and then went off to the first Gulf War a couple of years after high school. I spent 4 yrs on a Naval vessel which was deployed to the Persian Gulf. So you're preaching to the choir on the murder rate of our inner cities vs. the virtues of fighting a war.

I probably know of more 'street casualties' than I really care to talk about. But your point is certainly well taken. It's just that we live in a culture that, unfortunately, places a premium on what's news worthy and what isn't.

I feel your passion, bro, I really do. But there are no real positives in war. The events of 9/11 made our country very emotional and we stood behind President Bush 110% when he declared war on Iraq. And for the most part, even when things began to unravel, we still said, let's do the patriotic thing and support our leader. However, at some point reason and blind loyalty have to give way to truth and facts. Now that the facts have surfaced little by little, the media now feels justified in taking shots at Bush and his cabinet. People that stood with him in the beginning are now distancing themselves from him. They now stand in stark contrast to the individuals that 'went to war' with Bush in the beginning.

The media, in many cases, are simply echoing what's coming out of Bush's own house, so to speak.

I know several people who have been there for several tours. They all say that morale overall isn't low. In fact it has been strangely positive for the most part. Those with low morale supposedly are the malcontents.

As for the Iraqis I was told that the everyday Iragi folk WANT us there. They love that we have tried to help them. They realize we aren't the one CAUSING the problems we have just done a crappy job of solving the problems.

We have to remember that these people have everything going against them.

-They come from a area with a culture that lends itself to totalitarianism.
-They have been ruled with an iron fist for centuries.
-There are insane idiots trying to maintain this type of environment.
-They have spent their entire lives just trying to stay out of trouble and survive.

No where in there is there even a hint of ability to stand up and defend themselves. We shouldn't have expected that we could go in and simply remove a dictator and they would then firgure out what to do. They have no clue. That's what we screwed up. To intimate that it can't be won is silly though. It will just take a long long long long long time. We almost will have to wait until the next generation of Iraqis are grown and ready to take over. I can quibble with our expectations for the war and how we went about it but at this point leaving is the most coward thing we could do.

Whatever happened to Americans nutting up and getting the job done? Being hard workers who did what it took to finish a job, even if everyone in charge is screwing the pooch. I am not saying the bashing of Bush is unwarranted because it isn't I am saying that we need to decide as a country that we are not going to pussyfoot around this type of stuff. We're in it and we need to finish the job whether it takes 18 months or 18 years or 500 years. We're the f*cking USA and we're acting like a bunch of little scared twerps.

I know it isn't a popular war and many think we shouldn't be there but that is irrelevant because we ARE there. That horse has left the barn. Now we have to figure out what to do about it. We have only two options. Stay and finish the job or leave. To me leaving is just plain wrong. We started this mess and should finish it. Leaving now or any time before Iraq is ready emboldens enemy and leaves Iraqis hung out to dry. To me that is a bigger crime than anything. Leaving them to fend for themselves is tantamount to leaving a 4 year old in the middle of the woods in winter. It's our job now and we should finish it.

To me, one of the most interesting things to come out of this mess is a deeper understanding of politics. I have followed politics closely for a long time but this mess has finally brought me to the conclusion that our system is utterly and totally broken. You can't trust either party to tell the straight up truth and you definitely can't trust either party to simply do the right thing on just about any issue. Both sides are ruled by special interests and party politics and it has ruined our government. On top of that is the realization that not only is there a general left leaning of the media in this country but also the counter weight of the right leaning media types is insanely right. I don't know what scares me more. The engrained lefties in traditional media or the wacked out righties trying to counteract them. It's like the thought process is "Well there a lot more lefties than righties. So us righties gotta be super crazy right to balance it out." Goddman you can't trust the media or politicans. We gotta do something about this f*cked up system.

Rant over.