John McCain: What Went Wrong?

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Sheriff Gonna Getcha
04-03-2007, 03:16 PM
Logic would suggest that soldiers, sailors, and airmen serving abroad would have low morale as they are far from loved ones and see their fellow countrymen killed in horrible ways. A lot of protestors argue that they are fighting against the war precisely because they care about the troops.

However, statistics (http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0503/p01s01-usmi.html) do not bear out such claims. The military's RE-enlistment rate has met or exceeded goals for several years now. Moreover, the highest re-enlistment rates are among those units that have deployed overseas. By the way, "re-enlistment" means that a soldier, marine, airman, or sailor decided to sign a new "employment" contract with the military for another 4 years or so.

So, my question is, if the men and women in the military have such piss-poor morale and hate the current status of the military, why are they coming back in such large numbers? Many would argue that the military's re-enlistment bonuses are the reason, but if it's really as bad as people are making it out to be, would $10K really persuade them to re-enlist? I doubt it.

Hog1
04-03-2007, 03:17 PM
Nicely done FRPLG. On both posts. I could not agree more. I thinnk this country and our government are out of control. The politicians want nothing more than to serve themselves, and the American people are paying the bills. We are out of control on all fronts and if things don't change, it will not end pretty.

FRPLG
04-03-2007, 03:20 PM
I don't believe morale is low. They indoctrinate these guys to be ready for crappy conditions and such. That's one thing a lot of people forget. These soldiers in general don't really have the same mentality as us normal civilian types who can't imagine having to be over there doing this. It is one reason I respect them so much. Because they can take a dangerous and sometimes crappy job and keep doing it over and over again with smiles. I am sure there are some who don't like it but there are always people who complain about something. Again I have heard from more than a one person that morale really is pretty strong.

FRPLG
04-03-2007, 03:24 PM
Nicely done FRPLG. On both posts. I could not agree more. I thinnk this country and our government are out of control. The politicians want nothing more than to serve themselves, and the American people are paying the bills. We are out of control on all fronts and if things don't change, it will not end pretty.

I am not convinced that all politicians are bad. I am convinced that those leading the parties are either only serving themselves or just go along because it is the way the system works and they think somehow they can make it better(and never do). I believe most politicians are just go alongers. They can't do a thing without party help and to get party help you have to play the game. The game is BS and party poltiics has to be fixed.

saden1
04-03-2007, 03:35 PM
Everyone knows the Dems are a bunch of pussies. I agree about their half-assness.

But lets get real, walking away from a bad situation is a good thing. We've all walked away from a bad situation in our lives and the same rules that applies to our personal lives applies to our nation. Iraq is a black hole that's sucking up monetary resources and more importantly American lives.

Surrender is just a catch phrase people utter to appeal to our emotions, fear and pride. There is a reason why pride is one of the seven deadly sin. It makes men irrational.

Hog1
04-03-2007, 03:38 PM
Perhaps I over-stated the point. I do not believe that all politicains are bad either. However, those that are good, seem to be greatly outnumbered by the unscrupulous majority. We're in trouble unless REAL change occurs. I can't see it on the horizon as of yet.

saden1
04-03-2007, 03:38 PM
To me, one of the most interesting things to come out of this mess is a deeper understanding of politics. I have followed politics closely for a long time but this mess has finally brought me to the conclusion that our system is utterly and totally broken. You can't trust either party to tell the straight up truth and you definitely can't trust either party to simply do the right thing on just about any issue. Both sides are ruled by special interests and party politics and it has ruined our government. On top of that is the realization that not only is there a general left leaning of the media in this country but also the counter weight of the right leaning media types is insanely right. I don't know what scares me more. The engrained lefties in traditional media or the wacked out righties trying to counteract them. It's like the thought process is "Well there a lot more lefties than righties. So us righties gotta be super crazy right to balance it out." Goddman you can't trust the media or politicans. We gotta do something about this f*cked up system.

Rant over.

This story (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/04/02/under-the-influence-how-lobbyists-wrote-and-bought-the-rx-drug-bill/) should make you sick to your stomach.

FRPLG
04-03-2007, 04:00 PM
But lets get real, walking away from a bad situation is a good thing.

Except when it creates an even worse situation. I agree that if there were no repercussions from walking away then I'll drive the damn bus over there and pick every last one of them up and bring them home. But no one seems to argue that leaving will only make it worse for us so I can't get behind that. The last thing we need is for Iraq to become terrorist training central. In the long run fixing the mess that is IRaq will be best I think. I don't think just because it is hard that we should leave. I totally don't agree that it is a no win situation.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha
04-03-2007, 04:04 PM
Everyone knows the Dems are a bunch of pussies. I agree about their half-assness.

But lets get real, walking away from a bad situation is a good thing. We've all walked away from a bad situation in our lives and the same rules that applies to our personal lives applies to our nation. Iraq is a black hole that's sucking up monetary resources and more importantly American lives.

Surrender is just a catch phrase people utter to appeal to our emotions, fear and pride. There is a reason why pride is one of the seven deadly sin. It makes men irrational.

I agree that, generally speaking, walking away from a bad situation is a good thing. For example, if you're arguing with a fool outside of bar and he's got a knife, the bigger man will simply walk away. Sometimes, however, walking away from a bad thing only makes the situation worse. A father who has a troubled child doesn't serve the child well by simply walking away. Sometimes, the painful choice is the right one and burying your head in the sand, plugging your ears and closing your eyes in the hopes that the bad man will go away, or simply running away from your problems is not.

As for "surrender" being nothing more than a catchphrase, its not. Rightly or wrongly, many people want the U.S. to leave Iraq immediately. What else do you call running away under fire? An unanticipated re-deployment of our forces out of the fighting and back to the U.S.?

I am really angry with Bush for getting us into Iraq, but I am not convinced that an immediate withdrawal is the right thing to do and I am certain that a timed withdrawal is not. If we do leave Iraq, however, I would like the anti-war protestors to refrain for the next 20 years from calling for the U.S. to get involved in any civil wars with hints of genocide.

FRPLG
04-03-2007, 04:05 PM
This story (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/04/02/under-the-influence-how-lobbyists-wrote-and-bought-the-rx-drug-bill/) should make you sick to your stomach.

Here's the thing. I don't blame lobbyists one bit for anything. They have a job to do. The are supposed to garner support for their industries/companies/whatever. Most do a stand up job of it. They lobby honestly, legally and morally. There is a way to do that and most do it. There are some who go over board. Heck there are a good amount. Not 50% but maybe 10% who "buy" votes. But guess what, I don't blame them. They are simply playing the game. The didn't invent the game. Politicians did and politicians are the ones who don't do a thing about it. There isn't one intelligent person in this country that doesn't understand that to end this system the politicians will have to fix it. They refuese to so at this point I lay the blame that their feet and no one elses.

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