Disgusted with Bonds?

I think a lot of players use the roids to help rehab from injuries. Assuming he's on the roids, he's probably reaping the benefits right now more than any other time, because they're probably helping keep him in good enough condition to withstand injury and keep him in decent enough shape at age 42.

If he had retired after the 1998 season-I think most agree up to that point he was clean right?-do you think he'd have been a Hall of Famer? First ballot?

I agree that baseball has no integrity. And I agree that sometimes you have to bite the bullet and make a hard decison in life. But the reality of THIS situation is that it is a business and they cannot simply go and make the RIGHT moral/ethical decision without consideration of what is best for business. To you and many others(including me) just wiping these guys out and never speaking of them again is the right ethical/moral way to go and would be a great way to begin building a foundation of integrity that would strengthen the games appeal. But you would have to PROVE they were guilty and totally wipe out as many as you could fairly. The problem with that is that there are a majority of lesser thinking people out there that would see it is a reason to just give up on baseball once and for all. Many people just float along with their head in the sand to this type of stuff because it is easier and more enjoyable. Presented with the cheating as a these people would most likely give up on baseball because it would be the easy thing to do. I think MLB is rightly concerned that conducting a witch hunt to fairly exercise the game of all cheaters. cheater stats and cheater records would end the game in this conutry as a major sport. It would flush millions upon millions of dollars in equity and value down the drain and potentially lead to real contraction within the sport. In a time when they are facing an gigantic uphill battle with both football and basketball they simply cannot give up that ground. So they choose to implement a real testing policy to get the idiots out and to stop the performance enhancing as much as possible and wait a decade or so to have all this stuff wash away. Sure it leaves tainted stats and records but that is a smaller price to pay than potentially destrooying the game. It is the choice between two evils and they are chooisng the lesser of the two.

If he had retired after the 1998 season-I think most agree up to that point he was clean right?-do you think he'd have been a Hall of Famer? First ballot?

Beyond any doubt.

I agree that baseball has no integrity. And I agree that sometimes you have to bite the bullet and make a hard decison in life. But the reality of THIS situation is that it is a business and they cannot simply go and make the RIGHT moral/ethical decision without consideration of what is best for business. To you and many others(including me) just wiping these guys out and never speaking of them again is the right ethical/moral way to go and would be a great way to begin building a foundation of integrity that would strengthen the games appeal. But you would have to PROVE they were guilty and totally wipe out as many as you could fairly. The problem with that is that there are a majority of lesser thinking people out there that would see it is a reason to just give up on baseball once and for all. Many people just float along with their head in the sand to this type of stuff because it is easier and more enjoyable. Presented with the cheating as a these people would most likely give up on baseball because it would be the easy thing to do. I think MLB is rightly concerned that conducting a witch hunt to fairly exercise the game of all cheaters. cheater stats and cheater records would end the game in this conutry as a major sport. It would flush millions upon millions of dollars in equity and value down the drain and potentially lead to real contraction within the sport. In a time when they are facing an gigantic uphill battle with both football and basketball they simply cannot give up that ground. So they choose to implement a real testing policy to get the idiots out and to stop the performance enhancing as much as possible and wait a decade or so to have all this stuff wash away. Sure it leaves tainted stats and records but that is a smaller price to pay than potentially destrooying the game. It is the choice between two evils and they are chooisng the lesser of the two.

Well said.

This issue is definitely not black & white, and as always, the devil is in the details.

If he had retired after the 1998 season-I think most agree up to that point he was clean right?-do you think he'd have been a Hall of Famer? First ballot?

Yeah definitely HOF based on his pre roids resume alone.

I am a 1975'er as well. But I vividly remember Perry being kicked out of a game for doctoring the ball back in 1982. And I've heard and read that he'd been doing that for years.

I guess I was too young to remember that, or other things have pushed it out of my mind. Plus, I was more into football than baseball at that time, and when I was watching baseball, it was only to watch my beloved Sox and Jim Rice.

Would it bother you if say Aaron Boone said he was using roids, knowing he's nowhere close to any record?

I already addressed this and said yes. It just bothers me a LOT worse when a record is going down because of it. You pointed out a Boone...well there is no doubt in my mind his brother Bret took roids, and that bothers me too.

Baseball is interesting in that it's so numbers oriented. I mean where was the outcry for all the Carolina Panthers found to have ordered roids and HGH during their super bowl year?

Well, the Panthers aren't going after an exhaulted record RIGHT NOW. I was upset to hear about the Panthers, but we're talking about Bonds right now.

Everybody does it, so it's ok??? Good call

Besides, look a the fine BIG head he got out of the deal.
I heard on a sports talk show the other day that Hank Aaron apparently attends many baseball events, as a guest, for the good of baseball. They added, that if Bad Barry breaks his record, he will NOT be in attendance. "he will be fishing".

I haven't heard that, but I hope it's the truth...good for Aaron...he shouldn't applaud this disgrace.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. The problem is baseball turning a blind eye to the steroid problem until it was too late. Exacerbating the problem, as I said earlier, is the fact that Bonds is generally considered an ass. If he was some fun-loving, jovial guy I'm sure most people would look at this differently.

SO maybe the problem is the guy who makes the steroids...or the guy that sells it...or the cops for allowing it to take place on their streets. It's not the responsibility of the individual for taking it. Blame everyone else, not the person that is ACTUALLY doing it. That makes sense.

There seems to be some distinction between what is fair and right and acceptable in our personal lives and the same things in the business community.
In a nutshell........there is no difference. It is the same.
You do your life, as you do your business. Above the boards, or below. It's right or it's wrong.

I would agree with you if "barry and his friends" weren't half of the league's players. Kicking a few cheating people out of any sport helps save the integrity but when the problem is far beyond a few then you are talking about totally destroying the game entirely. I am not excusing anyone's actions. I am simply trying to get you to realize the reality of the situation. There is no way they can simply kick one guy out without confronting the real notion that the problem was considerably widespread and would have to do something similar to all cheaters. Maybe that is the way to go but they need to be ready for some long and lean years in baseball if they start really cleaning the game up that way. I would think they would rather simply let the testing wash those guys out and save the game that way. That solution presents issues like Bonds breaking the record but over all it is better than basically flushing decades records and players stats down the drain and saying to everyone "Our game was a farce for years".

I do think baseball has a better grip on this, and you can tell that they do when players go from being an all star to being a mediocre at best player because the testing is more difficult. I also beleive that Clemens waits to play because he can take roids, get all the strength and then cruise to the end of the season without a worry of testing positive, all the while collecting his 20+ million paycheck. Now, I am not saying it's still not happening. It is...but the ones that are are doing it with designer steroids that they think won't be caught. When Palmiero went down, everyone got scared. Only the ones that NEED it, and NEED it to acheive something still do.

I'm not really saying it's the integrity of the game...it is, but not really...it's the fact that here is a known roid head going after a great man, and a great player that busted his ass to own this record. It's not right that a cheater will pass him.
The integrity of the game has been hurt for a long time, they are on the way back, but they are still WAY FAR OFF. Remember the league allowing interleague play to get fans back? That was a black eye to the integrity of the game too.
Obviously, nothing is going to be done about this, but I hope he gets the little * next to his record.