Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"

I don't mind an involved Danny if it results in FA signings like this past year. If, on the other hand, it results in more Adam Archuletta's and Brandon LLoyd's, I would substitute "crappy" for "real interesting."

Call me old fashioned but I think football people should be making football decisions and owners should make ownership decisions.

I thought it would be interesting to see what people where saying when Gibbs was hired but I could not find anything that far back. I did find this one thread and by reading these post (not sure how many of these people still post) Gibbs did not hit the mark people thought he would hit when he arrived. Gibbs did allot to help this team but I also think that he feel short in other areas.
http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/968-how-soon-till-we-win.html?highlight=skins+superbowl

Look, it's one thing to disagree. It's another to call them blind, deaf, and dumb.

99% of Redskins nation disagree. Which is my point, how can they not see, hear and understand the difference Gibbs has had on this team, front office and owner?

I don't think it's an issue of the effect Gibbs had on the franchise, but more of the results that were lacking, as well as the lack of structure left in the front office.

99% of Redskins nation disagree. Which is my point, how can they not see, hear and understand the difference Gibbs has had on this team, front office and owner?
I don't think anyone would disagree that Gibbs left this organization better than when he arrived but I believe that allot of people (myself included) fell that he feel short in winning us game and making a run to a SB.

I posted this in another thread, but I thought people might want to compare our starters, pre and post Gibbs.

OFFENSE

LT = unchanged
LG = Dockery to Kendall
C = Moore to Rabach
RG = unchanged
RT = unchanged
TE = Zeron Flemister to Chris Cooley
WR#1 = Coles to Moss
WR #2 = Gardner to ARE
RB = Trung Canidate to Clinton Portis
FB = Bryan Johnson to Mike Sellers

DEFENSE

LE = Wynn to Daniels
DT = Noble to Montgomery
DT = Dalton to Griffin
RE = Upshaw to Carter
OLB = Arrington to McIntosh
MLB = Trotter to Fletcher
OLB = Armstead to Washington
CB#1 = Bailey to Springs
CB #2 = Smoot to Smoot/Rogers
FS = Ohalete to Taylor*
SS = Bowen to Landry

Aside from the Bailey/Springs and Dockery/Kendall swaps, we are in much better position today than we were 4 years ago. Of the 22 starters Spurrier left Gibbs with, 11 are not even playing in the NFL (Ohalete, Bowen, Armstead, Arrington, Noble, Dalton, Upshaw, Moore, Flemister, Johnson, and Canidate). That's 50% of the team. Moreover, most of those guys are out of work due to poor play, not age or injury.

In short, we did NOT have a good roster in 2003. We appear to have a nice one in 2007.

Good comparison, Thanks. The flaw in all this better off talk is that it assumes the team has been "fixed". Unfortunately an NFL team is not like a broken car, a NFL team is never fixed. Players & coaches come & go. Injury happen. The team is always being tweaked, patched, etc. Its an ongoing process that is never done. Gibbs did some good things while he was here but he's gone now and his "fixes" will only last until the next tweak.

So basically you're saying no team can ever be better off.

There is always room for improvement. However, the progression from before Gibbs to after Gibbs is going in the right direction.

Call me old fashioned but I think football people should be making football decisions and owners should make ownership decisions.

Well, what constitutes an "ownership" decision? He owns the team so, arguably, who he employs is ultimately an ownership decision., whether they be a player, coach or FO person.

What you really want, as many do, is for Snyder to be an open checkbook for, say Floyd Reese, as he was for Joe Gibbs. Essentially, you want him to cede control of his enterprise to a general manager/team president/ceo, etc. because you believe him to be (as many others do) incompetent in the personnel/talent evaluation phase.

I can't believe I am saying this but, and this is a big big "but", if he has learned patience and discarded his fantasy football ways, Snyder could do fine in the talent aquisition phase. Certainly when it comes to running the cap, the current FO arrangement has allowed some flexibility despite consistent projections of gloom and doom.

Again, the question remains - Do we get the the talent aquisition of the Smoot/Fletcher year or the Archuletta/LLoyd/Duckett year? If the former, Snyder is fine by me. If the latter, well, call me when he sells the team.

Good comparison, Thanks. The flaw in all this better off talk is that it assumes the team has been "fixed". Unfortunately an NFL team is not like a broken car, a NFL team is never fixed. Players & coaches come & go. Injury happen. The team is always being tweaked, patched, etc. Its an ongoing process that is never done. Gibbs did some good things while he was here but he's gone now and his "fixes" will only last until the next tweak.

Huh? Did Gibbs' "teak[s], patch[es], etc." improve the team? From a personnel point of view, and based on SGG comparison, I would say most definitely. Further, it appears you are conceding (which Lenny P does not) that Gibbs has improved the team.

The statement I bolded seems to assert that the moment anyone "teak[s], patch[es], etc." the Redskins then all of the work done by Gibbs will be wiped out. That simply if far to broad a statement to be given credibility.

On the other hand, if you are merely asserting that it is possible that the next coach will completely unravel Gibbs good work b/c Snyder will simply go back to his old ways, fair enough. That could happen. But that scenario is more than a mere tweak or patch.

Preliminarily, by making the bolded assertion you inherently concede that Gibbs HAS improved the team. The only question is whether or not the improvements he made will survive without him being present.

Essentially, it devolves back to the question that we all have and that only time will answer: Did Gibbs teach Snyder patience and will Snyder be able to be patient without Gibbs presence. IF SO then, I believe, we will be fine. If not, then God help all 'Skins fans.