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SmootSmack 02-13-2008, 12:40 AM I agree he would have benefitted from a year as OC, and I thought the original signing as OC was a good one. Just sceptical about the HC spot.
Understood
You are absolutely right about the guy saying it was bad for us, but not for Baltimore. That is something I am not defending, just defending his comments about us.
Ok, and I'm saying his whole piece is indefensible because he's inconsistent
Well, I would agree with you here, but I am just not convinced that Blache can run the D like GW. GW was the the REAL DC, not Blache.
Fine, but Blache does have experience at that level. Plus, it has been noted (can probably look it up) that Blache's influence in simplifying the defense went a long way toward the unit rebounding this year off 2006
I am not completely agitated over that, but I feel you need experience when your HC has none. Hiring a D3 coach is not wise.
ps- Belichick was hired as a "special assistant" in Baltimore in 75, and served under MANY titles in his career, including: Assistant special teams coach, special teams coach, Wide receivers coach, tight ends coach, defensive assistant, linebackers coach, assistant head coach, defensive backs coach, and of course, DC for 6 years. He was in the NFL from 75-90 before getting a shot at head coaching in Cleveland. The reason he is so successful (minus the cheating) is because he's done it all.
They've got experience through several members of their coaching staff. I don't see why the concern about who the offensive assistant is. He's not being hired to be the offensive coordinator.
Ok, so he was "special assistant" The point was he got his start somewhere and he got it right out of college. As you say, he's done it all but at one point he was a nobody serving as an assistant
jsarno 02-13-2008, 12:48 AM They've got experience through several members of their coaching staff. I don't see why the concern about who the offensive assistant is. He's not being hired to be the offensive coordinator.
Well, we seem to agree on most everything except these two things.
While he's not being hired as OC, what's the point of hiring a guy as a coach if it's a meaningless position? It was a poor choice to hire a D3 coach to help coach an offense when the HC has no experience. They should have gotten someone to be more of a consultant and help where Zorn lacks. Of course we will never speak of this again due to the fact that it's an obscure position.
Ok, so he was "special assistant" The point was he got his start somewhere and he got it right out of college. As you say, he's done it all but at one point he was a nobody serving as an assistant
A lot of people got spots out of college. Belichick got a lowly position as a special assistant, so I am unsure of your point. If it's to say that our lovely D3 coach got a job out of college as well...well that I am not arguing. What I am arguing is that Zorn has no experience so hire someone that does to help aid Zorn. That wasn't the case with Belichick...and had we still had Gibbs, I could care less about the chance we are taking on this guy. To be honest, I am more upset about Zorn than I am anything else. The other stuff is just adding insult to injury. If we hire an OC with no experience, then depending on his experience, I am really not going to be happy.
SmootSmack 02-13-2008, 12:50 AM To some extent you are correct, there is no evidence that points to this being a bad hire...why? Cause we are blazing a new path. Everyone that has been mentioned to this point (Reid, Cowher etc) have had more experience than Zorn before taking over. Zorn was never even a HC at ANY level EVER. The only time he was ever on OC was at Utah feakin St.
I was all for letting him be the OC...he earned that spot with what he did with Hasselbeck, but a HC spot he hasn't come close to earning.
I do fail to see where I have been speaking in generalities. If you have been following my posts, I have backed up most of them with facts and stats that most here didn't know.
I'm all for blindly following the skins and what they decide to do, hell I practically invented it this year, but don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about when I have provided coach after coachs history and shown that we really are blazing a new path with Zorn. What we did was unheard of. I have tried to find any coach that has had a similar past and can't find it. (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I have left this question to everyone for days and no one has come up with a single person...Reid came the closest but he was assistant head coach.) Just cause you don't like what I am saying is no reason to call it a dumb argument. And to say I am ignoring facts...well sir, I have supplied fact after fact...unsure what "facts" I ignoring. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else, or you're looking in the mirror while talking, either way, you need to pay more attention to my posts, and not take them so personally cause I am unsure of this hire. I am more than willing to have constuctive banter with anyone about this subject, but no one has supplied any good reason this is a good hire minus what he did with Hasselbeck. Well, I have already admitted he will be good for Campbell...but as an HC?????
Similar past? Well Andy Reid, but I know you don't accept that because of the title of Assistant Head Coach. Though who really knows what that meant. Could have just been a nominal title.
Mike Tice would be another example.
As is Mike Ditka, I'm almost positive
SmootSmack 02-13-2008, 12:55 AM Well, we seem to agree on most everything except these two things.
While he's not being hired as OC, what's the point of hiring a guy as a coach if it's a meaningless position? It was a poor choice to hire a D3 coach to help coach an offense when the HC has no experience. They should have gotten someone to be more of a consultant and help where Zorn lacks. Of course we will never speak of this again due to the fact that it's an obscure position.
A lot of people got spots out of college. Belichick got a lowly position as a special assistant, so I am unsure of your point. If it's to say that our lovely D3 coach got a job out of college as well...well that I am not arguing. What I am arguing is that Zorn has no experience so hire someone that does to help aid Zorn. That wasn't the case with Belichick...and had we still had Gibbs, I could care less about the chance we are taking on this guy. To be honest, I am more upset about Zorn than I am anything else. The other stuff is just adding insult to injury. If we hire an OC with no experience, then depending on his experience, I am really not going to be happy.
Well, what sort of experience are you talking about? Head coaching experience? Ok, you've got Joe Bugel. NFL coaching experience? Bugel, Breaux, Simmons-just to name three. Not counting guys like Hixon, Mitchell, and Sherman Smith here.
Look, I know you're not one of those complain just to complain guys but the fuss over our offensive assistant strikes me as such
jsarno 02-13-2008, 01:07 AM Similar past? Well Andy Reid, but I know you don't accept that because of the title of Assistant Head Coach. Though who really knows what that meant. Could have just been a nominal title.
Mike Tice would be another example.
As is Mike Ditka, I'm almost positive
Ditka was assistant head coach for Landry for 9 years.
You are right (the first person to name someone BTW) about Tice. He was OLine coach for the Vikes before taking over on an interim basis when Green was fired.
Tice would be a good comparison...good job thinking of someone, I couldn't.
BTW, Tice was 32-33 with Minnesota, not good, but not bad.
SmootSmack 02-13-2008, 01:10 AM Ditka was assistant head coach for Landry for 9 years.
You are right (the first person to name someone BTW) about Tice. He was OLine coach for the Vikes before taking over on an interim basis when Green was fired.
Tice would be a good comparison...good job thinking of someone, I couldn't.
BTW, Tice was 32-33 with Minnesota, not good, but not bad.
Are you sure he was assistant head coach? I thought he was just an assistant and special teams coach
By the way, it's like the 3rd time I've mentioned Tice :)
jsarno 02-13-2008, 01:14 AM Well, what sort of experience are you talking about? Head coaching experience? Ok, you've got Joe Bugel. NFL coaching experience? Bugel, Breaux, Simmons-just to name three. Not counting guys like Hixon, Mitchell, and Sherman Smith here.
Look, I know you're not one of those complain just to complain guys but the fuss over our offensive assistant strikes me as such
You make a good point about the others that have experience. And like I have said, I don't really have the problem with the signing of the offensive assistant position, just really scratching my head as to why hire anyone with no experience at even a d1 school to back up a guy that has never been an HC at ANY level. This is more about Zorn.
I am failing to see the point of that hire though. Like I have said, I am really more concerned about the Zorn hiring (HC, not OC). DO you really think Bugel / Breaux and Company can get Zorn up to speed and make him successful when we barely got to 9 wins with a hall of fame coach, an amazing DC and a once studly OC? I have concerns.
I have obviously made too many comments about our D3 coach hire, I don't mean to take away from my concerns about Zorn by making those comments.
jsarno 02-13-2008, 01:18 AM Are you sure he was assistant head coach? I thought he was just an assistant and special teams coach
By the way, it's like the 3rd time I've mentioned Tice :)
I remember an interview with Ditka talking about his coaching with Landry, and yes he was an Assistant Head Coach by his words. I'm sure he could have over played his position, but he was a vital cog in the wheel that was the dallas cowboys. Back then, the titles weren't as important anyway.
Have you seriously mentioned Tice that many times? My bad man, I don't see how I missed that. That was a good call.
Was there anyone else you mentioned that I missed?
SmootSmack 02-13-2008, 01:22 AM You make a good point about the others that have experience. And like I have said, I don't really have the problem with the signing of the offensive assistant position, just really scratching my head as to why hire anyone with no experience at even a d1 school to back up a guy that has never been an HC at ANY level. This is more about Zorn.
I am failing to see the point of that hire though. Like I have said, I am really more concerned about the Zorn hiring (HC, not OC). DO you really think Bugel / Breaux and Company can get Zorn up to speed and make him successful when we barely got to 9 wins with a hall of fame coach, an amazing DC and a once studly OC? I have concerns.
I have obviously made too many comments about our D3 coach hire, I don't mean to take away from my concerns about Zorn by making those comments.
I don't know how long it will take. But I think he has some solid coaches to help him through, and Holmgren's coaching tree is pretty solid overall and regardless of him not being a coordinator in Seattle the fact is that he was side by side with Holmgren for several years and certainly must have learned a lot from him.
Giantone 02-13-2008, 04:15 AM I don't know how long it will take. But I think he has some solid coaches to help him through, and Holmgren's coaching tree is pretty solid overall and regardless of him not being a coordinator in Seattle the fact is that he was side by side with Holmgren for several years and certainly must have learned a lot from him.
This is not a shot just a question but How many super bowls have they won?
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