Free Trade: Fight It, or Embrace It

being in production, this has started almost 5 years ago. we hourly are ask to do 2, and sometimes 3 different jobs at once. you talk about switching careers. easier said then done. how is someone my age, with limited schooling, going to accomplish this? i say lets make the playing field even. how can something that's made in china get into the American market with lead paint on it? isn't there any guidelines that must be followed? why do i need to give up my job, to satisfy the Chinese economy. we American workers have proved time and time again, that no one can match our quality. lets bring the other countries up to our standards,. or lower our standards, so that we can compete equally

Bringing them up to our standards would mean forcing our perceptions of quality on them - forcing them to pay minimum wage, give employees breaks, limit them to 8 hour days, force the countries to allow workers to unionize, etcetera. How would this be any different than forcing democracy down Iraq's throat?

Bringing them up to our standards would mean forcing our perceptions of quality on them - forcing them to pay minimum wage, give employees breaks, limit them to 8 hour days, force the countries to allow workers to unionize, etcetera. How would this be any different than forcing democracy down Iraq's throat?

What? You're comparing economic negotiation to the use of force by military means? Cuba or Sudan would have been a more palpable comparisons.

Bringing them up to our standards would mean forcing our perceptions of quality on them - forcing them to pay minimum wage, give employees breaks, limit them to 8 hour days, force the countries to allow workers to unionize, etcetera. How would this be any different than forcing democracy down Iraq's throat?
in my opinion, invading Iraq was one of the dumbest moves any American president could have done. it took an already fragile economy, and put it into a recession. if its not alright to have kids in America working, then why is it in china? for the simple fact that you can pay them peanuts. basically making them slaves. what about the emissions? its not alright to subject Americans to the dirty air, causing all kinds of health issues, but its OK to have the Chinese with the dirtiest air on the planet? and you have to answer your own question about Iraq, seeing that you are for the war. i say lets look out for our fellow americans first. then we get to help others

in my opinion, invading Iraq was one of the dumbest moves any American president could have done. it took an already fragile economy, and put it into a recession. if its not alright to have kids in America working, then why is it in china? for the simple fact that you can pay them peanuts. basically making them slaves. what about the emissions? its not alright to subject Americans to the dirty air, causing all kinds of health issues, but its OK to have the Chinese with the dirtiest air on the planet? and you have to answer your own question about Iraq, seeing that you are for the war. i say lets look out for our fellow americans first. then we get to help others

First, the war did not put us into a recession. This recession, more than anything, was the result of the crunch on consumer credit thanks to the American public's unsustainable spending, culminated by purchasing way more house than many could afford.

But am I the only one that sees the inconsistency in your logic? Help Americans first, that's the reason we shouldn't go to Iraq. But at the same time you're saying we should stipulate that nations enact labor laws similar to ours, or else we won't allow our corporations to go overseas and offer jobs to those people? Both are forms of interventionalism.

What? You're comparing economic negotiation to the use of force by military means? Cuba or Sudan would have been a more palpable comparisons.

Only in the sense that it's forcing our way of life on someone.

Using military force to push democracy, or using economic force to push our labor laws. The killing people part certainly is a glaring difference, but they still have one big thing in common: in both cases we're pushing an aspect of American life on other countries.

you were the one to draw the comparison between Iraq, and free trade. and the only reason to have consistencies in free trade is to keep the playing field as equal as possible. the other countries involved don't have to absorb the cost of clean air. the minimum wage we have is to try and keep a certain level of life possible for those making below average wages. all American companies pay for this, one way or another. why shouldn't these other companies involved in free trade have to follow some sort of guidelines? doesn't it bother you when you see child labor being exploited? the work related death counts at most of the countries is far greater then we have here. shouldn't those businesses have to follow some safe work practices then would insure the workers a much safer work environment? and about the war and recession, you take the 100's of millions of dollars being funneled into the war, and put it back into the American economy, and see what happens

saden, you are right on the money. these other countries have NO rules to follow as far as emissions, work safety, and child labor laws. it needs to be established by someone, to keep the playing field level. and gtripp, i respectfully disagree with your statement that outsourcing jobs creates unemployment is a myth. i have seen this first hand in Pennsylvania. Armstrong flooring was a mainstay here in my hometown. it employed over 6500 people. now, that production facility is on the verge of being torn down. fewer then 200 people work there. both of my grandfathers, my wife's grandfathers worked there for over 40 years. these guys earned good enough money to raise their families, and live part of the American dream. i work at Alcoa. when i started, 15 years ago, there were about 1300 employed. now we are under 700. they always talk about how cheap everything we do, can be done in china. Hershey foods shipped 100's of jobs to Mexico. with probably thousands more in the future. our economy isn't able to sustain this drop in employment, with new jobs behind it. the production jobs leaving are all fairly good paying jobs. the jobs replacing those jobs are all 10.00 jobs. going from 50,000.00 a year, or better, to under 40,000.00 a year, or less, is a helluva change in life styleGood points dmek, and I'm not saying that there won't be people that get screwed by job outsourcing because their professional skills are the ones getting outsourced. The point here is that additional jobs are being created because of the capital that is being created by cheaper labor costs. Because corporations aren't pouring millions of dollars into domestic labor that could be done for thousands of dollars overseas, they can re-allocate costs to other areas of product development and improvement...which of course creates jobs.

It's unfortunate for those who are moving into unemployment, and it doesn't speak any ill about how hard they work or how deserving they are of the American dream, it simply means that the free market has deemed their skills obsolete, and that's going to happen (unfortunately) to good people.

that i agree with. it doesn't seem fair that the C.E.O's keep getting bigger and better bonuses. while the ordinary Joe's basically have to take a pay cut, to keep their jobs

Unfortunately, the American consumers seem to prefer a lower cost over quality in production. I, personally, am not like that, but that's what the market values--so it's tough to prevent the people from getting the benefits/consequences of the choice they made.

you were the one to draw the comparison between Iraq, and free trade. and the only reason to have consistencies in free trade is to keep the playing field as equal as possible. the other countries involved don't have to absorb the cost of clean air. the minimum wage we have is to try and keep a certain level of life possible for those making below average wages. all American companies pay for this, one way or another. why shouldn't these other companies involved in free trade have to follow some sort of guidelines? doesn't it bother you when you see child labor being exploited? the work related death counts at most of the countries is far greater then we have here. shouldn't those businesses have to follow some safe work practices then would insure the workers a much safer work environment? and about the war and recession, you take the 100's of millions of dollars being funneled into the war, and put it back into the American economy, and see what happens

I think if you're going to take a hands-off approach in foreign policy, you have to take the same hands-off approach when it comes to telling other countries what their labor laws should be. Otherwise you contradict yourself.