Joe2 Legacy2 will be?

Even without Campbell's success, he already saved the franchise.

The years without him were PAINFUL and a little embarrassing.

Have you noticed how much smarter Snyder and his staff have become at assessing players and football decisions in general since Gibbs came back?

Snyder went from being a good businessman and horrible football owner to being one of the better all-around owners in the league.


Gibbs returned our pride in our team and brought us back to the relevancy in the NFL we've always known but temporarily lost.

For me, the most noticeable achievement is the before and after JGII:

Before he came we had been in the playoffs ONCE in about 12 years, a rate of 8.125%

After he comes we are in them 2 of four years- 50%.

I agree that the biggest long term influence is on the transformation of Snyder and Cerrato into competent professionals in their NFL roles.

Snyder is a different owner than he was five years ago. For the beter.

J-Dawg

Im a Gibbs fan, but his record speaks for itself.
1. He won less than 50% of his games in 4 years.
2. Won 1 of 3 playoff games, and you can chalk most of that up to the D.
3. He (the skins) spent a ton of money on players and coaches.
4. He couldnt drop Brunell, when he was hurting the team.
5. Couldnt put together a team that didnt have a bunch of motion penalties, false starts, and delay of games.

If this were any other coach, everyone would say that he was garbage. This is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and he didnt do much the second time around. But heck, he had a team that fought thier guts out.

He did give Ramsey a chance. He stunk it up. Remember that 80 yard TD pass to Moss during year one? After that, Ramsey fell apart.

I'm no Ramsey apologist, but i think Ramsey was replaced at the start of the 2nd half of the 1st game of JGll.

I think it would have been the right decision if the guy who replaced him wasn't named Mark Brunell. Neither could play so i guess it doesn't matter.

JLC pretty much sums up my feelings. Am I really that bitter?
Framing the Past to Evaluate the Future - Redskins Insider (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/08/framing_the_past_to_evaluate_t.html#more)

Im a Gibbs fan, but his record speaks for itself.
1. He won less than 50% of his games in 4 years.
2. Won 1 of 3 playoff games, and you can chalk most of that up to the D.
3. He (the skins) spent a ton of money on players and coaches.
4. He couldnt drop Brunell, when he was hurting the team.
5. Couldnt put together a team that didnt have a bunch of motion penalties, false starts, and delay of games.

If this were any other coach, everyone would say that he was garbage. This is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and he didnt do much the second time around. But heck, he had a team that fought thier guts out.

While i agree w/ alot of what you said, IF we have a nucleus that sticks around a couple of years and is successful I think JG's term here will be viewed more positively.

JLC pretty much sums up my feelings. Am I really that bitter?
Framing the Past to Evaluate the Future - Redskins Insider (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/08/framing_the_past_to_evaluate_t.html#more)

I think J-La had some good points, but he also needlessly was beating a dead horse with some others. I was as big a critic of 2.0 as I was a fan of Gibbs first run as HC. He left the franchise better than it was when he got here, but on the field his teams were a disappointment and he made some HUGE mistakes that I think a more contemporary coach wouldn't have made.

It's a new era, time to move forward. JLC must be bored.

Moderately Successful. I can see how some might consider the lack of a SB title to mean a failure. I wouldn't go that far. Gibbs has to be commended for:
1. Assembling a talented team around a nucleus of character guys
2. Going after some great draft choices (Vinny also deserving of credit here)
3. Keeping the team together after ST's death
4. Two playoff appearances

On the other hand, he has to be criticized for:
1. Sub-par offensive performance by the team over last 4 seasons - Gibbs was in charge of the offense.
2. Conservative playcalling during games and restraining Al Saunders' play calling freedom
3. Inconsistent team showings (we would lose regularly to bad teams, e.g. Baltimore in 04, Cleveland in 04, Oakland in 05, Tennessee in 06, etc) - players deserve blame for this too, but Gibbs should've had them ready to beat up on these types of teams.
4. Stubborn reliance on Brunell even when he was injured and/or ineffective
5. Not being a threat in the playoffs even when we made it

The sad part about that last point is few people other than skins fans will remember the 04-07 skins as a playoff team even though we made it to the post season twice - we just weren't threatening enough in the playoffs (despite beating Tampa).

I'm glad Joe stepped down because we never had a chance of being a championship team under him during his second stint. He knew it too. Zorn might not get us there either, but at least its looking good so far and the players seem to have a degree of enthusiasm markedly higher than in previous years and are looking like they've bought into his scheme and coaching style.

If you measure "Gibbs 2.0" by the standards of "Gibbs 1.0", then the second coming was pretty much a failure. If "Gibbs 1.0" had not gotten him voted into the HoF, then "Gibbs 2.0" would not have polished his resume in any way; he'd be on the outside looking in for the rest of eternity.

If you measure Gibbs 2.0 by the standard of Steve Spurrier/Norv Turner performances, then "Gibbs 2.0" is a roaring success.

Is the glass half-full? Is the glass half-empty?

Or is the glass twice as big as it needs to be???

Moderately Successful. I can see how some might consider the lack of a SB title to mean a failure. I wouldn't go that far. Gibbs has to be commended for:
1. Assembling a talented team around a nucleus of character guys
2. Going after some great draft choices (Vinny also deserving of credit here)
3. Keeping the team together after ST's death
4. Two playoff appearances

On the other hand, he has to be criticized for:
1. Sub-par offensive performance by the team over last 4 seasons - Gibbs was in charge of the offense.
2. Conservative playcalling during games and restraining Al Saunders' play calling freedom
3. Inconsistent team showings (we would lose regularly to bad teams, e.g. Baltimore in 04, Cleveland in 04, Oakland in 05, Tennessee in 06, etc) - players deserve blame for this too, but Gibbs should've had them ready to beat up on these types of teams.
4. Stubborn reliance on Brunell even when he was injured and/or ineffective
5. Not being a threat in the playoffs even when we made it

The sad part about that last point is few people other than skins fans will remember the 04-07 skins as a playoff team even though we made it to the post season twice - we just weren't threatening enough in the playoffs (despite beating Tampa).

I'm glad Joe stepped down because we never had a chance of being a championship team under him during his second stint. He knew it too. Zorn might not get us there either, but at least its looking good so far and the players seem to have a degree of enthusiasm markedly higher than in previous years and are looking like they've bought into his scheme and coaching style.

I would also criticize JG bringing in Saunders and installing a brand new complex offense the year after we made our first run to the playoffs. I believe that was the year that we were hyped up by the media and ended up 5-11.