For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...

The author of this thread needs to take an introductory course in logic and/or statistics, because his argument makes no sense. If all four teams were playing the same schedule with identical supporting staffs it would be a valid argument. They aren't, so it's not.

The author of this thread needs to take an introductory course in logic and/or statistics, because his argument makes no sense. If all four teams were playing the same schedule with identical supporting staffs it would be a valid argument. They aren't, so it's not.

The attacks are really getting old...

1) Supporting staffs?? We returned more staff from last year than the Dolphins/Falcons (not sure on Ravens, but i'd say there too)

... the WHOLE POINT of the argument revolves around the specific area of those team's HC/OC portion of their staff being a much more productive, successful, talented group than ours...

2)Schedule? Like I said... we are 2-2 versus teams with a combined 5-47-1 record versus the rest of the league... hello?? don't talk about strength of schedule...

if comparing one NFL coaching staff to another NFL coaching staff isn't logically or statistically prudent enough for you, maybe you should take an introductory course on the word logic..

I think SS made a good point regarding our impatience vs. reality. Skins' fans refuse to go through a "rebuilding" phase that includes major overhauls of staff, player and philosophical overhauls that lead to consecutive top-10 draft seasons. I don't call the last decade or so of bad-mediocre seasons "rebuilding", as so much as we were restocking... some of those seasons just had records similar to inexperienced teams.

We blame Snyder when he meddles, when he pulls the trigger too fast, when he makes big splashes. We blame the team when they don't make changes. We blame the rookies when they're not performing at Pro-Bowl levels their first year. Maybe Snyder is just a reflection of us. If any of us were in his position, the fanbase would still be looking for blood. Maybe we're the problem?

The attacks are really getting old...

1) Supporting staffs?? We returned more staff from last year than the Dolphins/Falcons (not sure on Ravens, but i'd say there too)

... the WHOLE POINT of the argument revolves around the specific area of those team's HC/OC portion of their staff being a much more productive, successful, talented group than ours...

2)Schedule? Like I said... we are 2-2 versus teams with a combined 5-47-1 record versus the rest of the league... hello?? don't talk about strength of schedule...

if comparing one NFL coaching staff to another NFL coaching staff isn't logically or statistically prudent enough for you, maybe you should take an introductory course on the word logic..


If one wishes to criticize the Redskins, there exists ample material with which to do that. Many posters on this site have produced effective and often devastating analyses attacking both the coaching staff and the players. Very edifying, love reading it. However, comparing the Skins to the Dolphins, or Falcons, or 85 Bears, or 96 Chicago Bulls, or whatever is completely arbitrary and irrelevant. That’s not the standard by which we judge them. Now, it's one thing to produce smart analysis drawing parallels between coaching staffs with similar traits and circumstances. This type of soft-analysis is what good sportswriters and good posters do. It is another to point at a different team with a new coach and QB and say, see, their success mathematically, incontrovertibly proves the Redskins suck. One is interesting, the other is ass stoopid.

I wouldn't have so big a problem with your thread if you weren't imbuing it with the language of statistics, something you clearly don't understand.

If one wishes to criticize the Redskins, there exists ample material with which to do that. Many posters on this site have produced effective and often devastating analyses attacking both the coaching staff and the players. Very edifying, love reading it. However, comparing the Skins to the Dolphins, or Falcons, or 85 Bears, or 96 Chicago Bulls, or whatever is completely arbitrary and irrelevant. That’s not the standard by which we judge them. Now, it's one thing to produce smart analysis drawing parallels between coaching staffs with similar traits and circumstances. This type of soft-analysis is what good sportswriters and good posters do. It is another to point at a different team with a new coach and QB and say, see, their success mathematically, incontrovertibly proves the Redskins suck. One is interesting, the other is ass stoopid.

I wouldn't have so big a problem with your thread if you weren't imbuing it with the language of statistics, something you clearly don't understand.


"the language of statistics" you are mentioning would be...? Points scored and points allowed??? Record versus the worst teams in football (a combined 5-47-1 aginst the rest of the league)??

231 points scored for one team compared to 336, 325, 283 for the other three... help me with understanding these tough statistics...which is better??

oh yeah, that's right... points don't matter when comparing one team to another.. right?


And who said anything about the '85 Bears??? Are you seriously criticizing my post when you take a little bit of information and stretch it as far as you possibly can with words just to try and support some really idiotic analysis? Like I need your approval for anything??

I am comparing 4 teams with new Head Coaches who have had to install new offenses with 4 "new" (to the system) QB's ... using the only stat that REALLY matters... POINTS! ... yeah, apples to grapes....

let's just agree to disagree because I can't read anymore mid-numbingly ignorant people who only want to criticize other people when make absolutely no common sense themselves...

if you disagree that JC and JZ should be to blame for our season, fine, just say so... but to attack me personally with no reasonable logic....

Look you makes some good points, but how can you assign all the blame to JC who has improved and a first year/last minute HC that didn't even have the time/chance to bring in his own staff except for an OC that doesn't even know the WCO and an assistant from St.Olaf?


The offensive line doesn't deserve any blame?
Offensive line coaching?

Receivers not getting open? Dropping passes? Not making big plays?
WR coaching?

The main thing that bothers me about your post is that you gloss over the 2 most important factors in the Ravens and Falcons offensive success. The
offensive coordinator/offensive line coach.

Can Zorn get some credit for taking a team, that everyone wrote off at the start of the season, to 6-2 now 7-7 when people picked them to go 4-11?

Can Zorn get some credit for putting out an creative offense during the 6-2 run?

Can Zorn get some credit for holding it all together while serving as HC/OC/QB coach?

If Campbell is getting sacked 2.43 times per game, many times because his first option isn't open and he pumps but doesn't throw, then sits and pats the ball without automically knowing the best available option left or throwing it away (or pulling down & running like that super running QB Fitzpatrick!! ha!), that is SOMEONE'S fault right? QB? QB coach? Offensive Passing Scheme with not enough viable options & blockers??
If that was the case, you'd be correct, but over the last few weeks he's been getting sacked because the OL is making incorrect blitz pick-up calls, is missing assignments, or getting physically beaten. JC has actually saved a good number of sacks by getting out of the pocket or getting the ball out quickly.

Again... let me say... I am not saying we need to fire either, I never even came close to saying it... I am just saying that it is time to use the "inexperienced" excuse for both... they HAVE to improve IMMENSELY for this team not to become the Lions/Bengals/Rams of the next couple of years... these other teams (Falcons/Dolphins/Ravens) have done so in months, not years

I agree both Zorn and Campbell need to improve, but they are not the main culprits for our current stretch of poor performances. I challenge you to name me a productive offense with a poor OL....don't try to research and find one, because it doesn't exist.


Oh, also, for those saying Zorn didn't fumble the ball on the goal line ... he called SELLERS number TWICE in a row!! Portis hasn't scored a touchdown in what, 6-7 weeks? Maybe, if he would have used our fullback to plow an opening for our once MVP candidate RB...
I agree with you here, bad play selection by Zorn.


And... those saying our D is much to blame for yesterday, sure, ok, they were worse than usual, but... we went three and out for the first quarter and a half of the game against one of the league's worst defenses!!! Just don't forget how bad the offense was to start the game (and every game over the past 6)our defense surrendered 20 points, against a Bungles team that is averaging 12.4 point per game, I believe it was 11.x prior to Sunday. They definitely are responsible for this loss just as much as the offense.

good post... but I disagree with the sacks assessment. Many sacks lately have been from the other team having more rushers than we have protectors in my opinion... but that's fine

Also... the defense gave up the TD early, but the Bungleds DID start the drive on the 35... not a good excuse, and the did performed below par, but... anyway, our offense should be able to score more than 20 against the Cincinnati Bengals too...

To lay 100% of the blame on JC and even Zorn is not fair, but in the real world of pro football if a team isn't clicking on offense the guy(s) that get the axe are the HC and/or the QB. Zorn's WCO needs to be gutted altogether or at the very least heavily modified somehow in the offseason if he doesn't get canned. JC gets another year in my book to show us if he is a real talent or just an average QB. AFter '09 he will have had the same time as Frerotte had to show us what he can do, and if he has another subpar year simply don't resign him. To be honest, I expect that to be what will precisely happen. Although he has shown some improvement, he still is slow on the development curve for the time he has been here.

We are never going anywhere with jason cambell as our qb.This team was struggling to score points last year and was heading for a 6 and 10 season.Lucky for them jc got hurt and all are offensive problems followed him to the bench.Cannot read defenses does not make quick enough decisions.play colt or hell even give the man that carried us to the playoffs last year a chance.