Bucs fire Coach Jon Gruden and GM Bruce Allen

I think the Shannahan and Gruden firings show that there are other owners who have time limits on their coaches. You'll see Gruden going somewhere else as a HC unless he wants a year off. I was surprised he never really tackled the QB problem at the Bucs and kept ending up with veteran, journeyman QB's.

BTW - I see Zorn going three years here, unless he has terrible season next year (like less than 4 wins).

forget it he's done

Thank you.

Is he really that good of a coach? Ok he won a SB his first year in Tampa but who put that team together? Not Gruden. That was in 2002 and he has been back to the playoffs twice sense then with no wins. Other than his SB year he is way under 50% in wins in the playoffs. People say he has not had alot of talent to work with but why does he get a pass on this because I'm sure he had input on the players drafted or signed in the past 7 years. One could argue that they have gone backwards ever sense he took over in 2002. As a coach in Tampa he is just a 50% win coach and if you add in his Okland years he is just above 55% winning record. Maybe I'm over looking something here but just because the guy is aways fired up and seems to be so intense does not make him a great coach. Not saying he is a bad coach but He is far from a great coach. Here are his stats. Jon Gruden Record, Statistics, and Category Ranks - Pro-Football-Reference.com (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GrudJo0.htm)

Maybe I'm over looking something here but just because the guy is aways fired up and seems to be so intense does not make him a great coach.

Well, that seems to be what I am hearing and reading. I can imagine Gruden's "intensity" kinda wears thin after a while. If you got only one gear when it comes to coaching, I think players start to tune him out. Not only that, I imagine he would start to get a rep around the league as players move around. I am betting in his next gig, he gets "tuned out" pretty quick.

I wouldn't want Gruden here, BUT, he would just feed Danny's "Let's try something different this year" hunger.

Is he really that good of a coach? Ok he won a SB his first year in Tampa but who put that team together? Not Gruden. That was in 2002 and he has been back to the playoffs twice sense then with no wins. Other than his SB year he is way under 50% in wins in the playoffs. People say he has not had alot of talent to work with but why does he get a pass on this because I'm sure he had input on the players drafted or signed in the past 7 years. One could argue that they have gone backwards ever sense he took over in 2002. As a coach in Tampa he is just a 50% win coach and if you add in his Okland years he is just above 55% winning record. Maybe I'm over looking something here but just because the guy is aways fired up and seems to be so intense does not make him a great coach. Not saying he is a bad coach but He is far from a great coach. Here are his stats. Jon Gruden Record, Statistics, and Category Ranks - Pro-Football-Reference.com (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GrudJo0.htm)

The Tampa Bay team that Gruden took to the SB in 2002 may not have been his team, but the Raider team that Callahan took to the SB that same year was Gruden's. I don't think he's a great coach, but I don't think he's bad either. I posted this earlier about his 11 years as HC:

"He has had 4 winning seasons out of the seven seasons he's been with Tampa Bay. Making it six winning seasons, five division crowns, five playoff appearances and one Superbowl in 11 years."

Not to defend Gruden, but he was in a pretty bad spot to begin with. The salary cap situation when Gruden got to Tampa was on the verge of disaster when he got there (I think that was the main reason Parcells backed out of a verbal agreement to take over as coach before they brought in Gruden, and in order to get Gruden Tampa sacrificed a lot to the Raiders-around $10 million in cash, two first round picks, and two second round picks.

The Tampa Bay team that Gruden took to the SB in 2002 may not have been his team, but the Raider team that Callahan took to the SB that same year was Gruden's. I don't think he's a great coach, but I don't think he's bad either. I posted this earlier about his 11 years as HC:

"He has had 4 winning seasons out of the seven seasons he's been with Tampa Bay. Making it six winning seasons, five division crowns, five playoff appearances and one Superbowl in 11 years."

Well he played with another coaches players and beat the guys he brought to Okland.

Well, that seems to be what I am hearing and reading. I can imagine Gruden's "intensity" kinda wears thin after a while. If you got only one gear when it comes to coaching, I think players start to tune him out. Not only that, I imagine he would start to get a rep around the league as players move around. I am betting in his next gig, he gets "tuned out" pretty quick.

I wouldn't want Gruden here, BUT, he would just feed Danny's "Let's try something different this year" hunger.

I really don't have a problem with how intense he is as a coach I just think people see him acting like that and just kind of assume he is a great coach. I have always thought he was a great coach until I started looking at what he has done over the past 11 years and his numbers tell a different story.

forget it he's done

So now I can party like it's 1999?...No wait, ah forget it.

You've got to give Gruden some credit for success in Tampa, but at the same time the team has always been carried by its D, so now that Kiffin is gone it would've been different anyway. Maybe Kiffin's departure played a part as well & they felt they had to start w/younger guys on the staff. Allen being included in this surprises me more than anything. I thought he did a decent job of getting personel, don't know about their cap situation.