Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan

The whole Cutler deal doesn’t make sense to me. Cutler was an upgrade. Cutler was available. Cutler’s price tag ended up being too high. The Redskins backed out and let another team fall on the sword. What’s the issue. Had the Broncos done what the Redskins did with Campbell, Cutler would have never been traded. Props to the FO for doing a great job with crowd control after that fiasco. On an unrelated rumor, NFL radio said the rumor was there was a 3 way trade, including WAS, CLE, and DEN. With CLE getting Cutler and Quinn ending up in DEN. Not sure what the skins were doing, perhaps picking up more draft picks? Or it could be a totally unfounded rumor – fact is, we’ll probably never know.This problem is that, reportedly, it went past a passing interest. We were prepared to throw multiple first round picks at Jay Cutler. Which is unquestionably insane, given our current QB situation.

We will never know if Snyder pulled the offer, or simply was outbid, but the fact that we were even there is proof of a shallow understanding of why we lost 8 games last year. It's telling Jason Campbell that he is being held responsible for failures he wasn't responsible for. It's proof that we don't see a problem with buying high and selling low. It's proof of so many structural problems in management that we can't just sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.

The same deal happened last year with Chad Johnson. We ONLY seem to chase players that are overvalued by the market. That's one thing if you are a team that generally avoids trades and free agency, but for this team, it's a big problem. Regardless of how you or I view Snyder as an owner, you aren't taking this seriously enough in your evaluation of the situation.

We very nearly reduced ourselves to a single first day draft pick in the next two years. And for what? Two good-but-overhyped players in Taylor and Cutler. You can't claim patience as a defense. We're too impulsive.

I think some people decided long ago to hate him, and always hate him no matter what. Whatever


Oh come on now. Reasonable people can disagree and a reasonable person could have come to the conclusion over time that he is bad for the Redskins . There have been many "last straws" over the years. This fiasco of publicly humiliating Campbell is only the latest. But until Obama starts firing NFL owners we're stuck with him.

I am not going to speak for Tom, but i can give you my perspective.

I gave Dan Snyder a good 4 to 5 years. I think Matt can attest to that, he used to post at times with us at hR and I used to defend Snyder. That has changed over the last three years because I don't like what I see that he has done to this once proud and historic organization. This has nothing to do with Dan the person. I don't know Dan. I have met several in the organization, but never Dan. I don't know him. BUT, I don't like his ownership style and I never will. This franchise really has no thought out plan for success. There is no plan for drafting to replace players in a few years, to build a healthy franchise. It develops players, leaves them go. Spends vasts amount of money on stars, while critical positions linger. They have not invested good solid drafts picks on the Oline and Dline since 2000. That is horrific. Especially given how critical those position are to success. The franchise is nothing more than a 10-6 to 5-11 franchise, hit the playoffs once every few years, but that is about it. Why? Because there is no direction. When your owner believe Vinny Cerrato is the guy, I already question it.

Listen, we all have differing opinions. I am one of those kind of guys, porbably because of my professional life and the success we have had at DCPSR, I am simply one of those guys that always believe in, what have you done lately. This farnchise has been mediocre since Snyder bought it and the lack of planning and decisions like Jason Taylor, Brandon Lloyd, and TJ Duckett are just awful, simply awful. I guess growing up in the 80s and watching how Jack Kente Cooke developed this franchise, with a professional staff, spoiled me. Watching teams like Pittsburgh and New England win year in and year out because they draft with purpose makes me wish. Given the fact that the last two years have seen more and more empty seats at FEDEX, I would say that Snyder's ownership is taking an effect, and not a good one. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the thoughts, certainly well expressed. My next question is do you see a growth and maturation in Snyder (I certainly think I do). If so, does that give you any pause in your thoughts, or do you think it is too small to measure?

This problem is that, reportedly, it went past a passing interest. We were prepared to throw multiple first round picks at Jay Cutler. Which is unquestionably insane, given our current QB situation.

We will never know if Snyder pulled the offer, or simply was outbid, but the fact that we were even there is proof of a shallow understanding of why we lost 8 games last year. It's telling Jason Campbell that he is being held responsible for failures he wasn't responsible for. It's proof that we don't see a problem with buying high and selling low. It's proof of so many structural problems in management that we can't just sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.

The same deal happened last year with Chad Johnson. We ONLY seem to chase players that are overvalued by the market. That's one thing if you are a team that generally avoids trades and free agency, but for this team, it's a big problem. Regardless of how you or I view Snyder as an owner, you aren't taking this seriously enough in your evaluation of the situation.

We very nearly reduced ourselves to a single first day draft pick in the next two years. And for what? Two good-but-overhyped players in Taylor and Cutler. You can't claim patience as a defense. We're too impulsive.

One of the ESPN reporters was talking in depth on the trade to Chicago, and I found it interesting that he said that Chicago had thought they were out of the mix for about 3 hours, no texts, calls etc. Then Denver called them when the other team (they did not say us, and in fact made it sound like it might have been Cleveland) did not offer Denver what they wanted. If that is right then we pulled out on our own, and again I think it is a sign Danny at least saw some boundary he would not go over. Sorry no link or reference, I saw it right when I got home, and was kinda spacing with the TV on.

One of the ESPN reporters was talking in depth on the trade to Chicago, and I found it interesting that he said that Chicago had thought they were out of the mix for about 3 hours, no texts, calls etc. Then Denver called them when the other team (they did not say us, and in fact made it sound like it might have been Cleveland) did not offer Denver what they wanted. If that is right then we pulled out on our own, and again I think it is a sign Danny at least saw some boundary he would not go over. Sorry no link or reference, I saw it right when I got home, and was kinda spacing with the TV on.

I read that our offer was part of a three team deal that included Cleveland because Denver did not want Campbell. Apparently Denver was only interested in Orton and Quinn in return. When Cleveland backed out, there went Cutler to Da Bears.

I read that our offer was part of a three team deal that included Cleveland because Denver did not want Campbell. Apparently Denver was only interested in Orton and Quinn in return. When Cleveland backed out, there went Cutler to Da Bears.

Ok, but again we just don't know the specifics. Cleveland backed out why? We weren't willing to offer what they wanted. They changed their mind. For me the most logical reason is we weren't willing to part with some piece of the puzzle. But again we just can't know.

You have zero to support that.
I guess it doesn't take integrity to fly an entire organization to Fla for ST's funeral. Or no integrity to setup scholarship funds for his kid. Or no integrity to raise all the money he does in the fight against Breast Cancer. Yeah, he's just an evil guy like all of America's rich white guys.

Ok that's just weird. But getting back to Snyder it's really not all about Cutler for me (i don't really understand why you wouldn't believe me there but ?). IMO his meddling makes him a lousy owner. And w/o someone of character Danny looks up to, Gibbs for instance, the poor guy just can't do it right. We can disagree whether Williams would have made a good HC here, but I don't think an honest person can make the argument Snyder acted w/ integrity. I mean the "allegation" from high up in the franchise that Williams disrespected Joe Gibbs was the most childish, absurd thing I've heard in professional sports...word. Sure Williams is an tough-minded, arrogant SOB who probably wanted more or less total control, but never once throughout his career have I heard or read where he threw anyone under the bus.

...the stuff mentioned about charity and the Taylor tragedy...well my God I can't imagine an owner acting any differently than Snyder did and charity is just a part of life (or it should be). I would bet my life's income I give a higher % of what I earn to charity than Snyder, in fact I bet the figures aren't even close, but I still know I'm more or less a lousy bloke. I mean if you're looking for a successful person to look up to in this regard Snyder seems like a terrible choice...Gates maybe, Buffet for sure. Not Snyder.

I think some people decided long ago to hate him, and always hate him no matter what. Whatever
I think your correct.
Snyder is a sawed-off little shit, self-made billionaire with some ego. I think that rubs many the wrong way. I happen to think damn near everything he does is FOR the Skins in one way or another. Some things have blown up....many have not. Hate him, love him.........he BLEEDS Burgundy FAR more than any of us............

Ok that's just weird. But getting back to Snyder it's really not all about Cutler for me (i don't really understand why you wouldn't believe me there but ?). IMO his meddling makes him a lousy owner. And w/o someone of character Danny looks up to, Gibbs for instance, the poor guy just can't do it right. We can disagree whether Williams would have made a good HC here, but I don't think an honest person can make the argument Snyder acted w/ integrity. I mean the "allegation" from high up in the franchise that Williams disrespected Joe Gibbs was the most childish, absurd thing I've heard in professional sports...word. Sure Williams is an tough-minded, arrogant SOB who probably wanted more or less total control, but never once throughout his career have I heard or read where he threw anyone under the bus.

...the stuff mentioned about charity and the Taylor tragedy...well my God I can't imagine an owner acting any differently than Snyder did and charity is just a part of life (or it should be). I would bet my life's income I give a higher % of what I earn to charity than Snyder, in fact I bet the figures aren't even close, but I still know I'm more or less a lousy bloke. I mean if you're looking for a successful person to look up to in this regard Snyder seems like a terrible choice...Gates maybe, Buffet for sure. Not Snyder.You act like you KNOW exactly how those situations played out. I guarantee you you have no clue.

Oh come on now. Reasonable people can disagree and a reasonable person could have come to the conclusion over time that he is bad for the Redskins . There have been many "last straws" over the years. This fiasco of publicly humiliating Campbell is only the latest. But until Obama starts firing NFL owners we're stuck with him.

I don't know how Campbell was publicly humiliated quite honestly. But, either way, reasonable people can certainly disagree. And I think many people make valid points about Snyder's flaws. I'd like to say even I've expressed frustrations, but I'd guess most people forget that. Still, Spence's post is basically what I was referring to. He sucks and if you don't recognize that you're stupid (to paraphrase). Well that's great, but a post like that tells me you decided a while back that no matter what he does or doesn't do you will always hate him, and it's not even worth discussing it with people like that.