Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement

If he had retired at 28, it would have been similar to Samuels retiring now at 32. Since 2007, he's been a negative effect on the offense (exception to a 5 game stretch in 2008). I do not believe that any amount of Shanahan magic is going to make Moss a valuable player like he was in 2004 and (particularly) 2005.

Most players are like Moss in that they keep playing until they just don't have the desire to play anymore. Maybe Samuels would have been like this if he had the option to play longer. But in his ten year career, he was still our best lineman when he went out, and that's pretty special.

I think Moss will have a good year next year. In fairness to Moss, he needs some time to get separation especially since he was the only wideout that had to be accounted for. He didn't look done in Detroit.

When you have a 3 step drop offense, a little guy isnt' going to produce (See Randle El and Moss' numbers from last year).

ARE had zero touchdowns last year, Betts had 2. Not sure about the FD numbers.

A lot of Moss' numbers for each of the last two years has been against the Detroit secondary.

I believe the following:

1) Moss is still physically able to run a strong route when he needs to once or twice a game (see Todd Collins' two deep passes).

2) If Moss doesn't buy into the scheme or the specific play being called, there are few lazier receivers in the league who are certain to not finish their routes.

I could see how Shanahan could come in and try to take advantage of Moss' strengths, and Moss could buy into the system from the first day and we get his best year since 2005, but 5 years removed from being a pro-bowler, his upside is limited now. And I don't really predict that Shanahan is going to have a major effect on him.

Moss should have a big game or two next year, but I'd be surprised if he was even a starter. Shanahan loves receivers who block and Moss' blocking effort varies greatly over the course of a game.

ARE had zero touchdowns last year, Betts had 2. Not sure about the FD numbers.I threw Betts and ARE on there because they are both first down machines in the passing game. Moss is obviously not the only player who doesn't score on our offense. He is by far the one who takes the most snaps (Pro Football Focus has him at 944 snaps, Kelly is second at 543).

Moss, as our leading receiver over the last three years, has averaged 4 TDs/year. In the four years prior to that, the prime of his career, he averaged 7.5 TDs per year.

I don't know if it's possible for a guy who gets all of the No. 1 receiver opportunities to average fewer than 4 TDs a year, but I'd suspect it's not. T.O scored 5 times last year, and there's no argument between Buffalo's QB situation last year and ours.

Moss has never been a big TD producer even in his prime, and it's not like JC is a TD tossing machine either.

Moss has never been a big TD producer even in his prime, and it's not like JC is a TD tossing machine either.Ultimately, you're correct. 20 TDs this year from JC is a lot though (in most years, that's a top ten number), and for Moss to get 3 on 592 pass plays seems like really poor production (half a percent of all pass plays are Moss TDs). Then you consider that the defenses he is scoring against are trash, and you have to conclude that he isn't a big play receiver, and hasn't been for awhile.

I don't know if I'd go as far as saying he's completely valueless, but I'm comfortable saying he's hurt more than he has helped in the last three years, which is not something I would say of Randle El/Betts/Cooley.

I do think if he's going to stay, he needs a new role. The old one isn't working.

Ultimately, you're correct. 20 TDs this year from JC is a lot though (in most years, that's a top ten number), and for Moss to get 3 on 592 pass plays seems like really poor production (half a percent of all receptions). Then you consider that the defenses he is scoring against are trash, and you have to conclude that he isn't a big play receiver, and hasn't been for awhile.

I don't know if I'd go as far as saying he's completely valueless, but I'm comfortable saying he's hurt more than he has helped in the last three years, which is not something I would say of Randle El/Betts/Cooley.

I do think if he's going to stay, he needs a new role. The old one isn't working.

I would like to see him in the slot. I think he would wreak havoc if Jason (or whoever) has some time.

I don't see him as a slot guy, but I'd be all for willing to try him there if just to get Thomas and Kelly more opportunities to produce.

My general perspective is that if we gave Thomas and Kelly 800 reps each, say 450-500 on passing plays, they would each individually be more productive than Moss is in the same role. However, neither is going to challenge for a pro bowl anytime soon.

I really like Randle El in the slot, but to be completely honest, his production has declined each year since his 2007 career year, and after 2010, he might not be a valuable player anymore. Plus, a lot of fans already want to get Randle El the hell out of town, mostly because he's blocking the young guys (so is Moss), isn't a red zone threat, and can't actually return punts (Moss can do this). Randle El's metrics would probably suck as well if we tried to jam the ball in to him at the goal line every drive.

I would like to see him in the slot. I think he would wreak havoc if Jason (or whoever) has some time.


Every now and then, the memory banks work...

Remember Rod Smith for a few years there? He was everywhere and was unstoppable. His two best years were arguably when he was 30 and 31.

I hope Marko Mitchell is Rod Smith. It's not realistic, but they're similar body types and were both 23 year old college seniors.