|
|
JoeRedskin 04-23-2015, 04:18 PM ... and to be clear (which I think I already have been), Cooper is not "my boy." I am not pulling for them to draft him. From everything I have read, and for all the reasons I have said in my various posts, however, he seems to me to be the likely, logical BPA choice at 5 under a "no trade down" scenario.
I have only "beaten his drum" b/c so many seem to think that, even if he is the clear BPA at the position we should not pick him simply b/c he doesn't satisfy an immediate need. I think that is a dumb-ass, short-sighted reason for a team passing on a player that they believe to be the most talented guy on the board. [Again, not saying that Scot McC believes that b/c I have no idea who he has rated as what. I am only arguing the underlying principle.]
If you think Fowler or someone else, based on "production and skill set" - or whatever else you want to use to evaluate talent, is the talent level equivalent of Cooper, fine. To me, that's a perfectly good reason for going with someone other than Cooper. I just have yet to hear anyone make a strong case for Fowler over Cooper based on talent only. Schneed's analysis at least made some rational sense but, despite his measurables, Fowler's actual on-field production doesn't seem to match up.
Like I said, the actual tape I saw of Fowler seemed to show him getting pushed around a lot - despite his size and strength. To me, that's a problem. If in actual game situations, he can't consistently dominate against college players given his advantage in measurables, that does not bode well when he has to take his game to the pro level.
SirLK26 04-23-2015, 04:53 PM Why all the talk of Fowler? Beasley is the best edge rusher in this class. His run defense is a big weakness, but we have Murphy to rotate in on rushing downs while Beasley develops. Von Miller is close to the same height and weight, so Beasley's size won't stop him from becoming a good run defender. Does he have talent to develop in that area? I don't know, but even if he doesn't, I would rather have a great pass rusher and poor-to-mediocre run defender in Beasley than a great receiver in Cooper or White.
Let me ask this to emphasize the value of pass rushers versus receivers: how many receivers in the league would you be willing to trade Kerrigan for?
EARTHQUAKE2689 04-23-2015, 04:57 PM Why all the talk of Fowler? Beasley is the best edge rusher in this class. His run defense is a big weakness, but we have Murphy to rotate in on rushing downs while Beasley develops. Von Miller is close to the same height and weight, so Beasley's size won't stop him from becoming a good run defender. Does he have talent to develop in that area? I don't know, but even if he doesn't, I would rather have a great pass rusher and poor-to-mediocre run defender in Beasley than a great receiver in Cooper or White.
Let me ask this to emphasize the value of pass rushers versus receivers: how many receivers in the league would you be willing to trade Kerrigan for?
To answer your question, 10 at least.
EARTHQUAKE2689 04-23-2015, 05:12 PM Why all the talk of Fowler? Beasley is the best edge rusher in this class. His run defense is a big weakness, but we have Murphy to rotate in on rushing downs while Beasley develops. Von Miller is close to the same height and weight, so Beasley's size won't stop him from becoming a good run defender. Does he have talent to develop in that area? I don't know, but even if he doesn't, I would rather have a great pass rusher and poor-to-mediocre run defender in Beasley than a great receiver in Cooper or White.
Let me ask this to emphasize the value of pass rushers versus receivers: how many receivers in the league would you be willing to trade Kerrigan for?
Also, I would rather have a great WR than a LB who can be run on at will
EARTHQUAKE2689 04-23-2015, 05:20 PM Nope, not even close. If we are stuck at 5 (which, given the thread's title, was my assumption), we pick BPA - which to will likely be Cooper, if it's Williams or Williams/Cooper, pick Williams b/c he is fills the more immediate need.
If (1) Williams is gone, and (2) someone gives us "value for our pick equivalent to picking" Cooper, then a trade is just as good as a BPA pick because we don't have an immediate need at WR. At the same time, you don't take just any trade out of the spot simply b/c your not sold on the guys at your immediate need position.
It's all very subjective but - very simply - don't trade out of a high value spot just to make a trade and, if you can't make the trade you want, don't pick a lesser value guy when you think a better player is still on the board.
BPA or what you judge the BPA's value to be. Always. Every day.
Agree 100%
CRedskinsRule 04-23-2015, 05:21 PM He's your boy.
JoeRedskin 04-23-2015, 05:22 PM I would trade Kerrigan for AJ Green (again, the current player to whom most talent evaluators compare Cooper) straight up. Tomorrow. Love Kerrigan, but AJ Green is a game changer in a way Kerrigan just is not.
... and to be clear, if Cinci called and said "Kerrigan for Green", you would turn them down cold?
I only used Fowler as he seems to be the most highly rated OLB. As to Beasley, if you believe he is the talent equivalent of Cooper - fine. Again, there has been much concern expressed about Beasley strength, if you believe it is not to a concern, okay.
If the choice is Beasley v. Cooper, which do you think has the greater chance at being a successful pro? Don't give me the "it's anybody's guess" "I'm not a talent evaluator" "I can't tell the future" "you can't compare the two" blah blah blah. It's a simple question, and I am not even asking your rationale. I just want your armchair, Monday morning, fan boy GM call: In 10 years, who do you think people are more likely to say was the better player?
As a follow-up, same "No BS" caveats, and out of the likely top 5 or 6 players: In 10 years, who do you think people are likely to say was a better player than Cooper?
JoeRedskin 04-23-2015, 05:26 PM He's your boy.
No. He really is not. I am full-on "In Scotty McC" we trust mode. Whoever he picks is my guy.
SirLK26 04-23-2015, 05:32 PM To answer your question, 10 at least.
Not surprised, coming from you.
Also, I would rather have a great WR than a LB who can be run on at will
Well yeah, when you frame it like that it sounds bad. But he wouldn't be expected to play rushing downs as a rookie, and he has the ability to make a huge impact as a pass rusher right away.
EARTHQUAKE2689 04-23-2015, 05:48 PM Not surprised, coming from you.
Well yeah, when you frame it like that it sounds bad. But he wouldn't be expected to play rushing downs as a rookie, and he has the ability to make a huge impact as a pass rusher right away.
Coming from me? What does that mean?
Calvin Johnson
Antonio Brown
Dez Bryant
Jordy Nelson
Julio Jones
Demaryius Thomas
DeSean Jackon (If he didn't already play for us)
Odell Beckham Jr. (A rookie, yes but all signs point to game changing elite WR in the making)
Alshon Jeffery
T.Y. Hilton (A push, but based of his first 2 seasons I could see the argument made)
And Randall Cobb and Emmanuel Sanders are pushes
Brandon Marshall, Andre Johnson, and Steve Smith if they were younger
|