Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;575916]Collins beat Colt hands down![/quote]

If that Ravens CB had hands, Collins would have given up a pick 6 and you wouldn't be making such a vehement statement. Essentially they both threw bad passes but Collins had a LOT more time. I'm not saying Colt did well, but he did show mobility as well as pocket awareness (it's almost like he had an exit strategy every time the pocket collapsed) and is close to being the #2 guy IMO.

If JC goes down for any extended period of time, there won't be much of a salvaging season type effort. In that case I'd like to see what the younger guy can do, not a guy who has maybe 2 more seasons left in him.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;576157]We can all IF this thing to death to make a case for our fav players.
IF the wr was taller he would have made the play for JC
IF the wr wasnt mugged by the db and had his head up to see the ball CB wouldnt have thrown a pick.
IF the TE on the seem route catches the ball he is off to the races.
IF our secondary was better we wouldnt have given up 100 yd games to THREE different QB's.

Fact is, the team as a whole has a long way to go. we were outplayed and outcoached.[/quote]Hard to be outcoached in the preseason when some guys are coaching to win and others are not, but somehow, I agree with you. The Ravens coaching staff just does an excellent job.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

How do you outcoach someone in a game that has no meaning or matter whatsoever? I don't get it

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

Colt looked tentative. Try him out with the first string of lineman and receivers and see what he can do. Also, give Chase a chance. Agree with those who say our dept is suspect.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=The Trigga;576287]How do you outcoach someone in a game that has no meaning or matter whatsoever? I don't get it[/quote]

500 Plus yds of Offense while holding us under 200. They wanted it more,they didnt let off the pedal in the 4th qtr when the game was out of reach. They drove the ball down our throats on offense and blitzed the whole game on defense. This was a statement game for the new D Coordinator for the Ravens,and for Cam C on the Offense.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;576056]Interesting thing on that is [B]if it had been Thomas or Kelly in that spot, both of who are 4-6 inches taller, that throw would have been right on the money. [/B]

Time will tell, but I am starting to think this game will fade into dark very quickly, and the team will be better from it.
(credits to 53Fan for my overcoming the post game malaise)[/QUOTE

Our QB's had high throws.JC overthrew Hagans and CB overthrew the TE on the Seem route. They were bad throws,and to say if it was this guy instead of that guy it would have been there is not a good excuse at all.What,because we have DT and MK does this mean when Santana -short wr-is open and he gets overthrown the QB will say sorry man,im used to throwin to DT. Brady throws to Moss and Welker,2 wrs with very different statures. I never see him overthrow wes and say dang, i thought you were randy.
Lets just take off the JC and CB goggles, put down the Koolaid and say the wrs were open for big plays and the QB's didnt get it done. Hopefully they improve and are able to take advantage of those situations in the future when it counts.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;576158]2 sides there... a Hagans fan might say a NFL QB should be able to hit a wide open wr on the numbers.. just sayin.:)[/quote]

If the ball hits an NFL receiver in the hands, he should catch the ball IMO, Hagans will soon be looking for another job.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=roth74va;576395]If the ball hits an NFL receiver in the hands, he should catch the ball IMO, Hagans will soon be looking for another job.[/quote]

An NFL QB should be able to hit a wide open wr dead in the numbers. We can do this all day. You Cant just put it all on the WR.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

Even if the wr catches the ball he comes down and falls out of bounds. or is hit when he lands and is out of bounds.. if the ball is lower the guy is off to the races after the catch.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

I would like to wish Colt a happy 26th birthday.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;576420]An NFL QB should be able to hit a wide open wr [B]dead in the numbers[/B]. We can do this all day. You Cant just put it all on the WR.[/quote]

Uniform numbers don't catch the ball. Hands do. And JC hit Hagans right in the hands.

Your contempt for JC has hit a new low.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=Lotus;576432]Numbers don't catch the ball. Hands do. And JC hit Hagans right in the hands.

Your contempt for JC has hit a new low.[/quote]

I agree with Roth and Lotus. A QB is not going to always going to be able to throw a perfect pass. Even Brady over/under throws Hes and Randy, but they do a good job catching any pass (perfect, under thrown, and overthrown.) That what separates the good receivers from mediocre ones. Collins, JC and CB over threw some passes, but the passes were "catchable". If it is in the receiver's vicinity they should catch it.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

Hagans had 15 passes thrown at him in 2007, and he caught 8 of those, and didn't accomplish anything of note.

He's your run of the mill 5th receiver/camp scrub/will never be able to hold a roster spot in the NFL. He offers nothing that DJ Hackett and Marko Mitchell do not. He's almost certain to be cut.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=Lotus;576432][B]Numbers don't catch the ball.[/B] [B] Hands do.[/B] And JC hit Hagans right in the hands.

Your contempt for JC has hit a new low.[/quote]Ah, the old anti-catch rate argument ;)

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=Lotus;576430]I would like to wish Colt a happy 26th birthday.[/quote]

26 already? He's older for a 2nd year guy. Only a year younger than Campbell. I guess the whole fondling himself while drunk in a girls dorm room, charged with a felony, transferring schools thing set him back a few years. :)

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=GMScud;576452]26 already? He's older for a 2nd year guy. Only a year younger than Campbell. I guess the whole fondling himself while drunk in a girls dorm room, charged with a felony, transferring schools thing set him back a few years. :)[/quote]

Happy late birthday to you, too. Sorry, I got distracted the other day, but I hope that you had a good one.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=Lotus;576432]Uniform numbers don't catch the ball. Hands do. And JC hit Hagans right in the hands.

Your contempt for JC has hit a new low.[/quote]

IF you take of the goggles and put down the JC Koolaid i said earlier JC AND CB both overthrew a wr during the game. the guys were both in a position to make a big play. it didnt happen and to put it all on the WR is total BS. neither QB was being rushed on the throws in question so there is no excuse for the misfire. And if we cut wrs for dropping balls we wouldnt have a wr corps.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

Well, I think someone pointed out that JC was throwing over a LB. I could be wrong. My point was, we brought in taller receivers to handle that same situation. and if a guy is 6" taller he catches that pass easy. If JC lowers it, it gets batted at the line or by the linebacker. Guess thats part of the goggle effect.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=Lotus;576453]Happy late birthday to you, too. Sorry, I got distracted the other day, but I hope that you had a good one.[/quote]

Thanks, it was a great birthday. You don't have to apologize.

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Isnt Hagans the same height as Santana AND ARE??
So i guess that throws out the whole 'he is used to throwin to taller wrs' excuse..He misfired,it happens. i cant see why you guys just cant admit it. I already said CB overthrew the TE on the seem. True i could say all day IF that was Cooley he is gone. but it wasnt so case closed.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;576469]IF you take of the goggles and put down the JC Koolaid i said earlier JC AND CB both [B]overthrew a wr[/B] during the game. the guys were both in a position to make a big play. it didnt happen and to put it all on the WR is total BS. neither QB was being rushed on the throws in question so there is no excuse for the misfire. And if we cut wrs for dropping balls we wouldnt have a wr corps.[/quote]

When you hit the receiver in the hands, it is not an overthrow. This is a simple point.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;576473]Isnt Hagans the same height as Santana AND ARE??
So i guess that throws out the whole 'he is used to throwin to taller wrs' excuse..He misfired,it happens. i cant see why you guys just cant admit it. I already said CB overthrew the TE on the seem. True i could say all day IF that was Cooley he is gone. but it wasnt so case closed.[/quote]

No, but Santana doesn't run that route, or mostly miss that catch. This is a useless debate. A rookie receiver could have made a great play on a catchable pass. He didn't. It's that simple. Hagans won't be in that position come Sep 13th.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

The ball was a little higher than Hagans would have liked. Hagans got his hands on it but couldn't bring it down. If he would have, he'd stand a better chance of making someones roster which he can't seem to do. Do QB's sometimes throw high? Yes. Do good receivers usually make the catch if they get their hands on it? Yes. Some even do it in the SB and help their QB get a big contract. :) What's all the fuss about?

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;576476]No, but Santana doesn't run that route, or mostly miss that catch. This is a useless debate. A rookie receiver could have made a great play on a catchable pass. He didn't. It's that simple. Hagans won't be in that position come Sep 13th.[/quote]


80 Hagans, Marques WR 5-10 205 2 Virginia 12-29-1982
89 Moss, Santana WR 5-10 200 8 Miami 06-01-1979
82 Randle El, Antwaan WR 5-10 185 7 Indiana 08-17-1979


ALL THE SAME HEIGHT!! And im sure all of the wrs at some point on different plays run that route. The DB went underneath and the wr went to the empty space in the zone. so i guess it wasnt an official route so to say. Just a young wr makin a good read and finding the open spot in the defense. didnt finish the play but it cant all be put on him.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;576479]ALL THE SAME HEIGHT!! And im sure all of the wrs at some point on different plays run that route. The DB went underneath and the wr went to the empty space in the zone. so i guess it wasnt an official route so to say. Just a young wr makin a good read and finding the open spot in the defense. didnt finish the play but it cant all be put on him.[/quote]

Campbell stated that Hagans wasnt even in the progression, but the line gave him enough time to throw the ball. It wasnt a "perfect" throw, BUT if your a young receiver trying to make the team, you gotta catch anything that hits your hands. Mitchell was the draft pick, and Hackett has the experience, Hagans simply missed a chance to make a positive mark.

I guess people can watch the same game, and yet we see different things.

BTW...how did we get here from Colts performance...lol?

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[quote=DBUCHANON101;576473]i cant see why you guys just cant admit it.[/quote]Congrats, you're now a hypocrite.

You're wasting a lot of breath and bandwith on an incompletion that might have been caught by Santana, Cooley, Kelly, or Davis. No one should have [B]expected[/B] Hagans to make that catch, but that's because it's Marques Hagans. He's not going to be on the Redskins in three weeks.

Worst case scenario, it works as a throwaway pass. It's the classic ball put where either the receiver gets it, or more likely, it's thrown away.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=GTripp0012;576488]Congrats, [B]you're now a hypocrite[/B].

You're wasting a lot of breath and bandwith on an incompletion that might have been caught by Santana, Cooley, Kelly, or Davis. No one should have [B]expected[/B] Hagans to make that catch, but that's because it's Marques Hagans. He's not going to be on the Redskins in three weeks.

Worst case scenario, it works as a throwaway pass. It's the classic ball put where either the receiver gets it, or more likely, it's thrown away.[/quote]

I can admit when CB overthrew a open TE on the seem but you cant admit that JC did the same. it was said he wasnt even in the progression yet JC had time to find him.. so by that logic he could have all day and still throw the ball a foot over the head of a open wr. And if i remember correctly werent most of you JC Koolaid drinkers screaming about the passes that S.Moss dropped last yr?? But now its all 'Santana would have caught that throw.And didnt Davis drop a walk in TD last yr?? Philly i believe it was. So the same could be said about all of our wrs in that position. Its NOTHING like your little scenerio, thats usually a case in tight coverage where the qb puts the ball away from the wr so either its incomplete or only the wr gets it.Not when the wr is WIDE open. please put down the cup.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=GTripp0012;576488]Congrats, you're now a hypocrite.

You're wasting a lot of breath and bandwith on an incompletion that might have been caught by Santana, Cooley, Kelly, or Davis. No one should have [B]expected[/B] Hagans to make that catch, but that's because it's Marques Hagans. He's not going to be on the Redskins in three weeks.

Worst case scenario, it works as a throwaway pass. It's the classic ball put where either the receiver gets it, or more likely, it's thrown away.[/quote]

He was WIDE OPEN. Ofcourse only the wr could have caught it or it was going to be incomplete.:doh:

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;576493]He was WIDE OPEN. Ofcourse only the wr could have caught it or it was going to be incomplete.:doh:[/quote]I too hate quarterbacks who find open receivers. Give me Jay Cutler!

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;576490]I can admit when CB overthrew a open TE on the seem but you cant admit that JC did the same. it was said he wasnt even in the progression yet JC had time to find him.. so by that logic he could have all day and still throw the ball a foot over the head of a open wr. [B]And if i remember correctly werent most of you JC Koolaid drinkers screaming about the passes that S.Moss dropped last yr?? But now its all 'Santana would have caught that throw.[/B]And didnt Davis drop a walk in TD last yr?? Philly i believe it was. So the same could be said about all of our wrs in that position. Its NOTHING like your little scenerio, thats usually a case in tight coverage where the qb puts the ball away from the wr so either its incomplete or only the wr gets it.Not when the wr is WIDE open. please put down the cup.[/quote]Look, you've had sufficient time to prove that you don't know anything about what it takes to be a quarterback in the NFL, or really at any other level. I tend to give people a LOT of chances to demonstrate some analytical ability before I outright dismiss what they are saying based on who they are, but I'm at that point with you. You have no credibility on this topic, so please stop appealing to your own authority. Consider this a polite request.

You also spend waaaaaay too much time trying to catch people who disagree with you in double standards such as the bolded one, when you could spend one quarter of the time trying to understand exactly what they are responding to. You don't seem to understand contextual statements. If I'm saying that Moss might have caught a ball that you wouldn't expect Marques Hagans to catch, I do not need to assert that "Moss would have caught that ball". Only that Moss has a better chance to make a catch than a reciever who will be out of the league next month.

I've seen you make good arguments before, but sometimes I think you just repeat yourself to see how long you can get people to respond to your bullshit before they quit. I'll admit that its entertaining on some levels to see you divehead in headstrong to concepts you don't understand with conviction on loan from God, but ultimately, I tire of you fast.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

DBuch, I am not a JC koolaid drinker. When JC makes a mistake I am happy to call him out.

Hatred makes people say and do foolish things. In your case, your utter contempt for Campbell repeatedly has led you to say some foolish things about quarterbacking.

Why do you hate Campbell so much?

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

Wow, 1 pass in the first preseason game is causing this much debate?

Yikes.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=Lotus;576501]DBuch, I am not a JC koolaid drinker. When JC makes a mistake I am happy to call him out.

Hatred makes people say and do foolish things. In your case, your utter contempt for Campbell repeatedly has led you to say some foolish things about quarterbacking.

Why do you hate Campbell so much?[/quote]

[B]Lets just take off the JC and CB goggles, put down the Koolaid and say the wrs were open for big plays and the QB's didnt get it done. Hopefully they improve and are able to take advantage of those situations in the future when it counts.[/B]

This was my earlier post on this thread. I said BOTH JC AND CB made high throws that could have been for big plays when the wr/te were open with nothing but green in front of them.

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[quote=DBUCHANON101;576529][B]Lets just take off the JC and CB goggles, put down the Koolaid and say the wrs were open for big plays and the QB's didnt get it done. Hopefully they improve and are able to take advantage of those situations in the future when it counts.[/B]

This was my earlier post on this thread. I said BOTH JC AND CB made high throws that could have been for big plays when the wr/te were open with nothing but green in front of them.[/quote]

I heard you the first time.

The point is, JC's throw to Hagans wasn't bad, Hagans hands were. Saying that you critiqued both JC and Colt doesn't change things if your critique of JC is off the mark.

This point prompted my question which I must now repeat: why do you hate JC so much?

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=Chico23231;575751]Well said. He sucked last nite and Collins looked good. Collins will be the 2nd QB going into the season, but we got alot more to worry about than talking about 3rd stringers.[/quote]


Hell yeah. QB is not a problem in terms of depth with us. I would like McDaniels in there though soon. McDaniels played in a real conference, not the Weakened WAC that Hawaii plays in. Anyway, the biggest worry I have is obviously our secondary. God damn they made Flacco look good!!! We are going to be hard pressed to be #4 on D if these guys don't get their shit together. I know it is preseason week 1, but so many other teams that have been on TV look far more crisp than we are.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;576529][B]Lets just take off the JC and CB goggles, put down the Koolaid and say the wrs were open for big plays and the QB's didnt get it done. Hopefully they improve and are able to take advantage of those situations in the future when it counts.[/B]

This was my earlier post on this thread. I said BOTH JC AND CB made high throws that could have been for big plays when the wr/te were open with nothing but green in front of them.[/quote]

I think you've become a victim of your hate for Jason Campbell. Seems like it is hard for some folks to take any of your comments unbiased given your posting history on the subject.

That being said, I think it is a bit silly for either side (those for and against JC) to be arguing about one throw in preseason.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;576420]An NFL QB should be able to hit a wide open wr dead in the numbers. We can do this all day. You Cant just put it all on the WR.[/quote]

The bottom line is that if Hagans wants to make it hard on the coaches to cut him, he makes that play.

I bet you Zorn isn't going to criticize Campbell for it. He may say he could have thrown it better (which is true on almost every throw) but an NFL receiver makes that catch. An elite receiver (Boldin/Fitzgerald) probably catch it with one hand and take it down the sidelines.

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What has he done to justify what we gave to get him? There are reasons we tried to trade him and there are reasons that we couldnt.

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all wrs drop passes.. T.O is a very good wr yet he leads the league in drops. But its hard to blame the wr 100% when he is open and has to jump and stretch for a pass when he is that open. Its not like he is Colbert for the Lions who was hit in the hands,chest level and still dropped it. Then i would say yes,its all the wrs fault.

Re: Colt's Game Performance
 

:doh: