Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=cpayne5;668443]No, I'm not. You stop behavior before it escalates to the point where someone can get hurt. Like I said, dogs have warning signs. When you first notice a warning sign, you can redirect its attention to let it know that that's not how you want it to act. Being a dog, it will listen to you, if you're firm. If you do nothing, the behavior will build to the point where either it fights or flees.

A dog doesn't have to bite someone in order to be taught that biting is not correct behavior.[/quote]

The point is though that your contention that there is zero percent chance is logically wrong. The chance can be mitigated to near zero but it requires you to be in constant supervision mode and to never allow interaction with the dog outside your presence.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=FRPLG;668447]The point is though that your contention that there is zero percent chance is logically wrong. The chance can be mitigated to near zero but it requires you to be in constant supervision mode and to never allow interaction with the dog outside your presence.[/quote]

It's not logically wrong, it's just not something that people want to do.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=cpayne5;668454]It's not logically wrong, it's just not something that people want to do.[/quote]

But also not at all feasible if you have children, unless you plan to live a life where you never ever leave a room with the child and dog together. Which is ridiculous.

You might understand when you bear some young'ns.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

Parents should be charged with manslaughter.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=Schneed10;668457]But also not at all feasible if you have children, unless you plan to live a life where you never ever leave a room with the child and dog together. Which is ridiculous.

You might understand when you bear some young'ns.[/quote]

Maybe. :silly:

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

cpayne, i gotta agree with everyone else on this. there is just no way you can say there is a 0% chance of a dog attack if trained properly.

nothing in life is so absolute. i will say that there are different ways dogs act when they are in an alarmed/agressive state.

some dogs will bark

some dogs will bark and snarl

some dogs will bark, snarl and bite

some dogs will bark, snarl, bite and not stop biting. these are the killers, these are the dogs that just lose it once they are provoked or think they are provoked. most dogs, if they bite a human that is it but some dogs just dont stop once they start and thats how people get killed.

thats why vick was teaching those dogs killer instinct by putting poodles and labs in rings. for the pits that didnt have killer instinct, they would train it to kill.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

cpayne I do agree this is the parent's fault in every way imaginable. I also think that dogs euthanized for biting is crap. I believe this because dogs, as well as other animals like say tigers and killer whales, all have a certain degree of wildness in them, domesticated or not. Their actions are predictable. I can predict that the best trained Rotty in the world still could go "Rotty" and eat someone's face off just like a Lab could. The issue is that a Rotty is more likely to do it in my opinion. It is simply not as clear cut as you make it. For the record, I have dogs and kids and have never seen either dog so much as turn a crooked eye towards my kids. I still never leave them together alone though.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=saden1;668459]Parents should be charged with manslaughter.[/quote]
Come on. They have lost a child isn't that enough punishment and to think they have to live knowing their actions lead to the childs death.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=Mattyk;668241]If I had kids, I just wouldn't risk having them around dogs like that.[/quote]
especially in the same yard and apparently unsupervised

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=firstdown;668492]Come on. They have lost a child isn't that enough punishment and to think they have to live knowing their actions lead to the childs death.[/quote]

[quote]The attack happened four months after officers had taken a Rottweiler from the same home after it bit an adult family member. The two Rottweilers at the Browning home have been quarantined.[/quote]

[quote=FRPLG]I still never leave them together alone though. [/quote]

I would imagine leaving a child with a dog that bit an adult is a big NO NO. I don't see how leaving their child unattended with a vicious dog is different than driving drunk with a child in the back seat. Lock them up I say.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=over the mountain;668462]cpayne, i gotta agree with everyone else on this. there is just no way you can say there is a 0% chance of a dog attack if trained properly.

nothing in life is so absolute. i will say that there are different ways dogs act when they are in an alarmed/agressive state.

some dogs will bark

some dogs will bark and snarl

some dogs will bark, snarl and bite

some dogs will bark, snarl, bite and not stop biting. these are the killers, these are the dogs that just lose it once they are provoked or think they are provoked. most dogs, if they bite a human that is it but some dogs just dont stop once they start and thats how people get killed.

thats why vick was teaching those dogs killer instinct by putting poodles and labs in rings. for the pits that didnt have killer instinct, they would train it to kill.[/quote]

Well, people are looking past what I said. The supervision part is key. I'm not saying a properly raised dog won't bite. Just about every dog has a tipping point. What I'm saying, is that you can tell when a dog is being provoked, or when the dog doesn't like something that's going on. Dogs don't snap, they lead up to aggressive behavior. Stop it when it starts, and you certainly can ensure a 0% chance of having something like this happen.

Check out this video of the Vick killers...
[url=http://badrap.org/rescue/vick/now.html]Meet the Rescued Michael Vick Pit Bull Dogs Now[/url]

PETA wanted these dogs put to death. Yes, that PETA.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

Tragic story. Wanted to clarify though, this was not the same dog that had attacked someone else, and the child and the dog were separated by a fence(at least as the parents thought)

[QUOTE]"She had a little toy rake. She must have been raking little mole hills," he said. "D'ette went out to check on her and she was just laying there bleeding. The female rottweiler was standing there."

Jay Browning said D'ette and Jesse liked big dogs.[B]They had gotten rid of an aggressive male rottweiler "a long time ago"[/B] and retained a male Labrador retriever and a male and female rottweiler.

[B]He said the dogs were kept in a fenced backyard and it's unclear how one of them had gotten into the front yard[/B].
[/QUOTE]

a long time ago = 4months according to other stories.

Regardless, a little girl lost her life, and a lot of people lost her presence in their life :(

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

I don't know why everything has to devolve into a blamefest, one camp blaming the parents, one camp blaming the breed, others blaming both. Why can't something just be a tragedy? Rottweilers are in fact known as a relatively docile breed, albeit one with tremendous strength. This one blew its top for reasons we aren't privy too - that doesn't mean it's not safe to have dogs or this breed specifically around kids, and it doesn't even necessarily mean the animal wasn't raised properly (although perhaps it wasn't, who knows). Statistically speaking, the risk of a dog attacking a child is so minuscule that owning one can't be construed as dangerous...the point being that it's not fair to attack these parents as at fault, at least without substantially more information.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

Tough times for the guys at Original Productions, first the death on Deadliest Catch and now this. They're all a-holes anyway, but still...

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=SmootSmack;668546]Tough times for the guys at Original Productions, first the death on Deadliest Catch and now this. They're all a-holes anyway, but still...[/quote]
SS drops a bomb. A-holes? That's the piligian crew doing those shows right?

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=djnemo65;668527]I don't know why everything has to devolve into a blamefest, one camp blaming the parents, one camp blaming the breed, others blaming both. Why can't something just be a tragedy? Rottweilers are in fact known as a relatively docile breed, albeit one with tremendous strength. This one blew its top for reasons we aren't privy too - that doesn't mean it's not safe to have dogs or this breed specifically around kids, and it doesn't even necessarily mean the animal wasn't raised properly (although perhaps it wasn't, who knows). Statistically speaking, the risk of a dog attacking a child is so minuscule that owning one can't be construed as dangerous...the point being that it's not fair to attack these parents as at fault, at least without substantially more information.[/quote]
I'll argee with this. Whne I was talking about Rots and Pits I was speaking from the stand point that I would not have one in my home. I don't have problem with people who choose to but its a risk they take. I'm sure I take risk all the time that others would not take.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=FRPLG;668559]SS drops a bomb. A-holes? That's the piligian crew doing those shows right?[/quote]

I won't name names but I was in a fantasy football league with a bunch of these guys one year and it was just an awful experience. Total dickwads took all the fun out of it. Then I was going to do some business with them, and they again were completely unprofessional, total dicks. I mean you deal with all sorts of people and you put up with it. But not them, I will never do business with them. Ever. I don't want to get into specifics but the way they treated people was truly disgusting

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

Not to change the subject, but in talking about A-holes, how could one not name S&S Aqua logging, or Jimmy and his son, James.

He curses and yells at everyone, even his boat man, and especially his son James. In one episode his dad yelled at him, called him a mother f'er, told him he was quitting and selling the business, and then 2 seconds later opened his house door to tell James to come in and get something to eat lol, and that he loved him.

And the funny thing is, his son looks like he'd be more comfortable at a video game convention than out working with his dad, but i know all too well the pressures of trying to succeed in a family business..

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;668716]Not to change the subject, but in talking about A-holes, how could one not name S&S Aqua logging, or Jimmy and his son, James.

He curses and yells at everyone, even his boat man, and especially his son James. In one episode his dad yelled at him, called him a mother f'er, told him he was quitting and selling the business, and then 2 seconds later opened his house door to tell James to come in and get something to eat lol, and that he loved him.

And the funny thing is, his son looks like he'd be more comfortable at a video game convention than out working with his dad, but i know all too well the pressures of trying to succeed in a family business..[/quote]

Its called TV and without that stuff who would even watch? I'm sure they exchange words from time to time but not like they do when the TV is running. That is also a job that one mistake can kill you and others around you. Its not like me making a spelling error on a letter that I mailed to a customer.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=firstdown;668969]Its called TV and without that stuff who would even watch? I'm sure they exchange words from time to time but not like they do when the TV is running. That is also a job that one mistake can kill you and others around you. Its not like me making a spelling error on a letter that I mailed to a customer.[/quote]

Do you even watch the show? Are you sure you know who i am talking about? The man curses, swears, and goes off every minute that the TV is on.

Exchange words from time to time? The more i re-read your post i get the feeling that you dont know who i am talking about.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;669018]Do you even watch the show? Are you sure you know who i am talking about? The man curses, swears, and goes off every minute that the TV is on.

Exchange words from time to time? The more i re-read your post i get the feeling that you dont know who i am talking about.[/quote]

Hell I might have the wrong show for what that matters.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=firstdown;668566]I'll argee with this. Whne I was talking about Rots and Pits I was speaking from the stand point that I would not have one in my home. I don't have problem with people who choose to but its a risk they take. I'm sure I take risk all the time that others would not take.[/quote]
I agree , I do not have a problem with Pits and Rots , I just won't live with something that is capable of killing me . [url=http://www.cesarsway.com/]Welcome to Cesar Millan's Official Web Site | Cesar Millan[/url] I understand he is one of the most respected dog trainers around .

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=budw38;669212]I agree , I do not have a problem with Pits and Rots , [B]I just won't live with something that is capable of killing me[/B] . [url=http://www.cesarsway.com/]Welcome to Cesar Millan's Official Web Site | Cesar Millan[/url] I understand he is one of the most respected dog trainers around .[/quote]

You're not married, I take it. :D

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

Sad thread turned bizarre.

How can there be any debate whether kids should be left alone w/ animals that can kill them? Seriously? Don't tell me well-trained dogs don't attack. Pull that tail harder or slap its nose and see what happens. The kid doesn't know better because it's a kid...the dog doesn't know better because it's 90% instinct. Bad combo!!!

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czf_H-w_ktE]YouTube - Ax Men: Jim Feels The Pressure[/url]

Just so there is no confusion lol as to who i'm talking about. Watch the clip. This is Jimmy & James from S&S Logging....the language is NSFW.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;669839][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czf_H-w_ktE"]YouTube - Ax Men: Jim Feels The Pressure[/URL]

Just so there is no confusion lol as to who i'm talking about. Watch the clip. This is Jimmy & James from S&S Logging....the language is NSFW.[/quote]


I have worked in plenty of kitchens and chefs are pretty much like this all the time in the heat of the moment but they be the first to buy you a drink at the end of the night too. In high stress jobs people sometimes just like to swear and yell you got be able to realize they are pissed at the moment not you. I would say this is probably not a good measuring stick of who this guy really is.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=cpayne5;669223]You're not married, I take it. :D[/quote]
LOL . No , I'am not . I will have to take my chances one day , of course , these days , I would be more worried about her taking half my $ than my life :)

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

Ironically, the topic of Cesar Millan's latest episode spoke exclusively about dangerous dog myths. He highlighted three breeds - Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and German Shepherds. Check it out. The show airs on National Geographic Channel. The title is "Most Aggressive Breeds".

I found one of his closing quotes to be perfect for this thread...
"So next time you hear about a dog attack, please don't just blame the dog or its breed. Let's all make sure everyone understands why the dog became that way - because of the human in that dog's life."

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

I'm a huge fan of both Pits and Rotts and hope to own one of the two soon.

The thing I feel though is you have to be VERY careful of those that you get from shelters, especially if they have had a background full of abuse.

And training is SO important with any dog. I work with dogs and nothing pisses me off more than a dog that walks you instead of you walking it. Just spend the $150 (at Petsmart. There are some places that offer training for free), take an 8 week course, keep up the training at home and it makes everyone so much happier and I'm sure the furniture and carpet will appreciate it too.

That being said, you have to be careful with kids around ANY sort of dog. Just because rotts and pitts are known to be aggressive (with bad training/owners) doesn't mean if you don't piss off the local golden retriever enough it won't snap at you.

Oh and if you wanna talk aggressive breeds... Look no further than a chihuahua. Those things are little rat bastards.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

Besides teaching my dogs how to sit, come, walk on a leash, and a few other things I have never had to teach them how not to attack people. I guess that's what has to be done if you own a dangerous dog. I'm thinking if I have to teach a dog not to attack then its probably not a good idea for a family pet.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=firstdown;671040]Besides teaching my dogs how to sit, come, walk on a leash, and a few other things I have never had to teach them how not to attack people. I guess that's what has to be done if you own a dangerous dog. I'm thinking if I have to teach a dog not to attack then its probably not a good idea for a family pet.[/quote]
Just find an old stuffed animal , put it in a .... cowturd , iggle or giants jersey and tease the hell out of the dog/s .... and let us know what happens :)

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=budw38;671184]Just find an old stuffed animal , put it in a .... cowturd , iggle or giants jersey and tease the hell out of the dog/s .... and let us know what happens :)[/quote]
What any dog or a rot/ pit.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=cpayne5;670747]Ironically, the topic of Cesar Millan's latest episode spoke exclusively about dangerous dog myths. He highlighted three breeds - [B]Pit Bulls, Rottweilers[/B], and German Shepherds. Check it out. The show airs on National Geographic Channel. The title is "Most Aggressive Breeds".

I found one of his closing quotes to be perfect for this thread...
"So next time you hear about a dog attack, [B]please don't just blame the dog or its breed. [/B]Let's all make sure everyone understands why the dog became that way - [B]because of the human in that dog's life[/B]."[/quote]



in some cases, yes, the owner can be blamed but in 99% of dog attacks, the dog is to be blamed because of those 99%, 98% of them are pits or rotts. those dogs are just too aggressive and they can snap without warning. imo, it's a stupid idea to have a pit or rott if you have small children, why not just get a lion or an alligator.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=wolfeskins;671209]in some cases, yes, the owner can be blamed but in 99% of dog attacks, the dog is to be blamed because of those 99%, 98% of them are pits or rotts. those dogs are just too aggressive and they can snap without warning. imo, it's a stupid idea to have a pit or rott if you have small children, why not just get a lion or an alligator.[/quote]

I don't think that Rots or Pits attack much more then the average dog its just the damage they do when they attack.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=wolfeskins;671209]in some cases, yes, the owner can be blamed but [B]in 99% of dog attacks, the dog is to be blamed because of those 99%, 98% of them are pits or rotts[/B]. those dogs are just too aggressive and they can snap without warning. imo, [B]it's a stupid idea to have a pit or rott if you have small children, why not just get a lion or an alligator[/B].[/quote]

98% of dog attacks are Pits or Rotts? Really, you can't possibly believe that, can you? :doh:

It's stupid to assume that a Rottweiler or a Pit Bull can't be a great dog with your kids. It's also stupid to compare these dogs to a lion or an alligator.

Want to visit mine the next time you're in northern Virginia? If you like dogs at all, you'll leave with a different mindset. I guarantee it.

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=firstdown;671040]Besides teaching my dogs how to sit, come, walk on a leash, and a few other things [B]I have never had to teach them how not to attack people. I guess that's what has to be done if you own a dangerous dog.[/B] I'm thinking if I have to teach a dog not to attack then its probably not a good idea for a family pet.[/quote]

So dogs must be born naturally aggressive right? Just like humans are born inherently evil. :doh:

Re: 'Ax Men' star's daughter mauled to death by dog
 

[quote=cpayne5;671231][B]98% of dog attacks are Pits or Rotts? Really, you can't possibly believe that, can you? :doh:[/B]

It's stupid to assume that a Rottweiler or a Pit Bull can't be a great dog with your kids. It's also stupid to compare these dogs to a lion or an alligator.

[B]Want to visit mine the next time you're in northern Virginia?[/B] If you like dogs at all, you'll leave with a different mindset. I guarantee it.[/quote]


yea i was exagerating a bit,but every time i hear of a bad dog attack,it usually involves a pitt or rott.

i wouldn't mind visiting but i'm not bringing my kids.