Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Lotus;860045]Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that Shanny does not know what he is doing. All I said was that they were options.

Ponder was a clear option. You are right, taking him would have meant no Kerrigan. And I like Kerrigan. But he was an option.

And we could have traded back up for Dalton in the second round. We would not have had to take him at 10.

But again, these are just options we could have taken.

Thanks for the insults though.[/quote]

I haven't insulted you so stop playing the victim role. That statement was for anybody acting like Shanny has no idea what he's doing.

Ponder wasn't a "clear" option. He was a slated 2nd round talent, and it was widely seen as a reach by the Vikings to take him at the 12th spot.

You are grasping at straws just trying to tear down Shanny. Instead of being a hatter, how about you realize this isn't going to happen overnight. You don't grab a QB just for the sake of grabbing you. If the guy doesn't fit you system, you don't take him. If he's a 2nd round talent, you don't take him in the top 10. Those types of panic moves are what sinks franchises.

Which was worse last year? Offense or Defense? Defense. So what did we need to address that year? Defense. Which is worse this year? Offense. Guess which side we'll most likely address this upcoming draft.

I'm a impatient mofo, but some of you make me want to strangle you. You expect success overnight from a decade (and more) worth of mismanagement.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;860047]I actually think our OL has not been that piss poor in blocking itself...except for Jamaal Brown and depth guys like Locklear and Hurt. Hasselbeck is probably slightly more mobile than Rex and makes better decisions. But I too mentioned to folks that his term and price would be a bit too much. Not only would we have to match his price and term, we'd probably have to pay half a million more or even more than that since Hasselbeck has been a buddy of Tennessee's OC since childhood.

I agree on TJax. He's a Rex with more mobility and stronger arm, basically.[/quote]


Our starting football team was a competitive team that could have easily been a 9-7 squad. That said, our depth sucks big time and it showed. Also, the number of injuries plays a huge factor in this as well. We don't have the type of QB to overcome the losses we have. Rex and Beck are limited big time and need all the help they can get.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;860059]First off, I think you need to tone down the tude a little.

Everyone is just frustrated right now and looking for answers. As bad as last year was, we're looking at an even worse finish this year. When Shanahan signed on here, I doubt anyone was expecting we would lose more games than Zorn did in his 2 years, hell even more than Spurrier, and we'd be 2 years into this new regime with no long term answer at QB in place.

I think we have the right to express some concern with the way he's handled things. I'm as big of an optimist as you'll probably find here, but I'm really starting to wonder where this ship is heading.[/quote]


I'm not meaning to bring any sort of attitude, but I'm more annoyed with our fan base then I am our starting QBs. I apologize if you are all offended, but it gets old really.

Had the guy not built up our defense, and grabbed a rookie QB, we'd still be just as bad on offense and our defense would be even worse. At that point, I imagine most would be talking shit about Shanny and Haslett (see last year) ability to run a defense.

It's never ending really. The man is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I take 0 satisfaction of seeing Beck getting buried in sacks or Rex throwing passes to the other team, but there is a brighter day on the horizon.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;860068][B]I haven't insulted you so stop playing the victim role[/B]. That statement was for anybody acting like Shanny has no idea what he's doing.

Ponder wasn't a "clear" option. He was a slated 2nd round talent, and it was widely seen as a reach by the Vikings to take him at the 12th spot.

You are grasping at straws just trying to tear down Shanny. Instead of being a hatter, how about you realize this isn't going to happen overnight. You don't grab a QB just for the sake of grabbing you. If the guy doesn't fit you system, you don't take him. If he's a 2nd round talent, you don't take him in the top 10. Those types of panic moves are what sinks franchises.

Which was worse last year? Offense or Defense? Defense. So what did we need to address that year? Defense. Which is worse this year? Offense. Guess which side we'll most likely address this upcoming draft.

I'm a impatient mofo, but some of you make me want to strangle you. You expect success overnight from a decade (and more) worth of mismanagement.[/quote]

lol :doh:

Chillout NC. your a good guy, but you come across too brash and arrogant to say the least.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;860068]I haven't insulted you so stop playing the victim role. That statement was for anybody acting like Shanny has no idea what he's doing.

Ponder wasn't a "clear" option. He was a slated 2nd round talent, and it was widely seen as a reach by the Vikings to take him at the 12th spot.

You are grasping at straws just trying to tear down Shanny. Instead of being a hatter, how about you realize this isn't going to happen overnight. You don't grab a QB just for the sake of grabbing you. If the guy doesn't fit you system, you don't take him. If he's a 2nd round talent, you don't take him in the top 10. Those types of panic moves are what sinks franchises.

Which was worse last year? Offense or Defense? Defense. So what did we need to address that year? Defense. Which is worse this year? Offense. Guess which side we'll most likely address this upcoming draft.

I'm a impatient mofo, but some of you make me want to strangle you. You expect success overnight from a decade (and more) worth of mismanagement.[/quote]
Disagree slightly here. We committed our top two picks to defense mainly because they were damn good prospects according to our scouts, not mainly because of the performance of D in the year prior. Identifying positions of need is good and all, but grading the prospects before taking them is absolutely necessary.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;859963]His excuses for the recent losing streak is that the supporting cast is consistently failing his hand picked QBs.

Whether that's accurate or not (and since I'm not doing game reviews...), Shanahan is wrong one way or another. Either he failed to build even an adequate supporting cast that can support Rex Grossman or the next QB, or he's excusing poor quarterback play by miscasting the blame.[/quote]

I think it's a bit of both. I'll admit Grossman is not the franchise QB we want him to be because his track record proves that. Looking back at how he was in Chicago and how he was second string in Houston tells it all. But I do see a lot of the INT's as not being his fault and is why I said Beck would not fair well either. Tipped passes, routes not being finished, receivers not going up after the ball and instead letting the defenders do it, receivers falling down on their routes, etc. etc.

We need a QB, one who's young and can be groomed for the future, but if we had any of the QB's taken in last yrs draft I doubt there would be a major difference. Look at it this way.... experience wise we have Moss (who now is injured) and Stallworth (who really doesn't have a clue). You can mention Armstrong but he's only got one year under his belt, Austin is getting more time this year then last, Paul is being used for his blocking ability, Hankerson finally see's the field and gets injured. Yea they picked up the ex Texan who caught a pass or two Sun but otherwise no one has experience other then Moss and Stallworth.

TE wise Cooley has been out, and Davis really only has about 1 yrs worth of playing time since Cooley got hurt last year up to now. So he's kinda learning also. The young guys are getting playing time like we wanted but this is what we have to deal with until they get better.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;860072]I'm not meaning to bring any sort of attitude, but I'm more annoyed with our fan base then I am our starting QBs. I apologize if you are all offended, but it gets old really.

Had the guy not built up our defense, and grabbed a rookie QB, we'd still be just as bad on offense and our defense would be even worse. At that point, I imagine most would be talking shit about Shanny and Haslett (see last year) ability to run a defense.

It's never ending really. The man is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I take 0 satisfaction of seeing Beck getting buried in sacks or Rex throwing passes to the other team, but there is a brighter day on the horizon.[/quote]


You do realize you are apart of that FAN base right.. Like I said I hope Shanny stays and have all the faith in him I was JS we had chances at drafting a QB, Oh and what has Mike done without John Elway? So it's not like he's the greatest coach that can't make mistakes.. I do think he's the best coach we've had here in a LONG time.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;860068]I haven't insulted you so stop playing the victim role. That statement was for anybody acting like Shanny has no idea what he's doing.

Ponder wasn't a "clear" option. He was a slated 2nd round talent, and it was widely seen as a reach by the Vikings to take him at the 12th spot.

You are grasping at straws just trying to tear down Shanny. Instead of being a hatter, how about you realize this isn't going to happen overnight. You don't grab a QB just for the sake of grabbing you. If the guy doesn't fit you system, you don't take him. If he's a 2nd round talent, you don't take him in the top 10. Those types of panic moves are what sinks franchises.

Which was worse last year? Offense or Defense? Defense. So what did we need to address that year? Defense. Which is worse this year? Offense. Guess which side we'll most likely address this upcoming draft.

I'm a impatient mofo, but some of you make me want to strangle you. You expect success overnight from a decade (and more) worth of mismanagement.[/quote]


Very well said. I agree with you. Fans here expect over night success and they point to clubs like the 49ers, Bengals, Bills, Lions, etc. etc. but they fail to realize those teams were not trading away draft picks for other teams cast offs, those teams had coach's who would develope players, those teams had a decent foundation the year before even though they did poorly. The Skins have no foundation. They are starting to get one but as you said it takes time and not 6-8 games worth of time, we are talking probably 3-4 yrs to get this team turned around with decent back ups and starters that know the plays inside and out.

Why didn't they jump on a QB this year? because as you said some would have been a reach, so they dropped back and took safer picks. They fixed one side of the ball but small tweeks are needed. I think they are hoping to have a foundation built for whom ever is brought in as QB so the "team" offensively can all help him be successful and develope vs. throwing him on the field taking hits risking injuries the whole while trying to learn the plays along with the supporting cast.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;860059]First off, I think you need to tone down the tude a little.
[B]
Everyone is just frustrated right now and looking for answers. As bad as last year was, we're looking at an even worse finish this year. When Shanahan signed on here, I doubt anyone was expecting we would lose more games than Zorn did in his 2 years, hell even more than Spurrier, and we'd be 2 years into this new regime with no long term answer at QB in place.

I think we have the right to express some concern with the way he's handled things. I'm as big of an optimist as you'll probably find here, but I'm really starting to wonder where this ship is heading.[/B] [/quote]

You're much more the optimist than I am, but this pretty much sums it up to a T.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;860079]You do realize you are apart of that FAN base right.. Like I said I hope Shanny stays and have all the faith in him I was JS we had chances at drafting a QB, Oh and what has Mike done without John Elway? So it's not like he's the greatest coach that can't make mistakes.. I do think he's the best coach we've had here in a LONG time.[/quote]

Yes I do, and it's not to the whole fan base. It's the ones that Chris Cooley talked about in his interview on the FAN. It seems we are so impatient and want instant success. We overvalue our players (cooley for a 1st and 3rd amirite?). We want to change coaches at the drop of a dime. We want to bring in all the big money free agents we can. We want to blast Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato for doing the exact same thing we are crying for.


I'm for some consistency and some cultural change. I think Mike has brought us a long way from where we were and has done 5 times the job that Gibbs 2.0 did. (that's solely my opinion) The records might not show it right now, but wait till the playing field becomes equal and then judge.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;860039]Dalton was picked up prior to our 2nd round pick. So you advocate picking Dalton or Ponder up at the #10 spot?...lol .[B].and you have the nerve to talk about Shanny not knowing what he's doing? Look in the mirror.[/B]

Also, I hope you realize that if we picked him, that means no Ryan Kerrigan or several of the other players currently on our roster. So you think having a rookie QB on a even shittier team was more valuable than increasing the overall quality of the team? [B]Stop being a Dan Snyder.[/B]
[/quote]

[quote=NC_Skins;860068] [B]I haven't insulted you so stop playing the victim role.[/B] [/quote]

Thanks again. And have a nice day.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;860076]Disagree slightly here. We committed our top two picks to defense mainly because they were damn good prospects according to our scouts, not mainly because of the performance of D in the year prior. Identifying positions of need is good and all, but grading the prospects before taking them is absolutely necessary.[/quote]

I think we all can pretty much assume the scouting department did something right and had these guys on a list of players the team should take if available. No one here will honestly know what the game plan was unless someone from the coaching staff comes out and says "this was our plan" or "we had a plan but because certain players were picked we had to look at BPA at other positions of need."

I think they knew Carter would be gone so they needed a replacement...Kerrigan, they knew this defense needed a NT Jenkins. Now I know some will say he's not NT material he was brought in to be a DE... whatever. When he was picked all the commentators even said the team is going to try to utilize him at NT but if he doesn't work out he will be a nice DE, another big body for teams to account for.

I'm actually happy with how our draft went other then I'd like to have had Dalton. Now the defense is somewhat shored up. They need to only fix a few pieces like FS and add better CB's. The offense is better but people don't want to look past the losing to see it. Our OL was performing 10x better at the begining of the season prior to all the injuries, the RB's wer doing well and getting yards with a healthy OL, Davis was looking like a real deal until he got injured and I think he's been playing gimpy lately, and unfortunatly all the young WR's are being forced to play but that should only benifit the team in the long run because they will have had some in game experience for next year when the team can hopefully get a more qualified QB.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Chico23231;860074]lol :doh:

Chillout NC. your a good guy, but you come across too brash and arrogant to say the least.[/quote]


I admit that. I try my best not to, and I've toned it down a bit in the football section at least. Lately though, I think I'm about to burst a blood vessel for all the calls to fire Shanny.


I apologize to Skinsfan and Lotus. I misdirected some fan anger onto them unjustly.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SBXVII;860080]Very well said. I agree with you. Fans here expect over night success and they point to clubs like the 49ers, Bengals, Bills, Lions, etc. etc. but they fail to realize those teams were not trading away draft picks for other teams cast offs, those teams had coach's who would develope players, those teams had a decent foundation the year before even though they did poorly. The Skins have no foundation. They are starting to get one but as you said it takes time and not 6-8 games worth of time, we are talking probably 3-4 yrs to get this team turned around with decent back ups and starters that know the plays inside and out.

Why didn't they jump on a QB this year? because as you said some would have been a reach, so they dropped back and took safer picks. They fixed one side of the ball but small tweeks are needed. I think they are hoping to have a foundation built for whom ever is brought in as QB so the "team" offensively can all help him be successful and develope vs. throwing him on the field taking hits risking injuries the whole while trying to learn the plays along with the supporting cast.[/quote]
Actually, Matt Stafford's supporting cast was pretty bad. Millen left the cupboard almost completely bare. But he was a good enough prospect for the Lions to take.

There is no set formula as to which part of the roster gets addressed first. It depends primarily on the quality of the prospects. Sometimes QB gets taken first because he grades out so well. Other times, a different position gets addressed because a prospect at that position grades out well.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

I'm not expecting overnight results. I have many, many posts here which counsel patience. In fact, I'd like to point out that the Lions had a pretty grim season a year ago because they were rebuilding and starting inexperienced players. Now they are competitive. Likewise we are having a grim season and starting many inexperienced players. Perhaps it will pay off for us next year, too.

But to give Shanny a pass and say that he had no chance to acquire a decent QB is simply not true.