Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=Hog1;523279]Perhaps an easier question might be. If we do not do a deal with him, who will we look to the will be a better fit/value, etc?[/quote]

Hog. The thing is Hall wants to be a Redskin he has said that many times. I don't see anyone else out there with his potential (available). Now some will argue this I'm sure but it's my opinion. He has a quickness and agressivness to him that reminds me of a young Deion Sanders. Before you say "what" he's no Deion. I grew up with Deion same town and played schoolyard football with him many times. So I know what a young Deion played like up close.

This guy with the right coaching can be something great.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=44ever;523281]Hog. The thing is Hall wants to be a Redskin he has said that many times. I don't see anyone else out there with his potential (available). Now some will argue this I'm sure but it's my opinion. He has a quickness and agressivness to him that reminds me of a young Deion Sanders. Before you say "what" he's no Deion. I grew up with Deion same town and played schoolyard football with him many times. So I know what a young Deion played like up close.

This guy with the right coaching can be something great.[/quote]

That having been said, I would consider you an authority on Deion! I am in agreement with you as I personally do not know of anyone else who gets me very excited.....that we can get a deal done with.....that ALREADY is acclimated to the team?
Get a "good" deal done....move on to "the line"

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

To me keeping Los and signing Hall is as important as our Oline and Dline problems at this point.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=Hog1;523301]That having been said, I would consider you an authority on Deion! I am in agreement with you as I personally do not know of anyone else who gets me very excited.....that we can get a deal done with.....that ALREADY is acclimated to the team?
Get a "good" deal done....move on to "the line"[/quote]

I don't know about a authority but I can certainly recognize the similarities.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=44ever;523281]Hog. [B]The thing is Hall wants to be a Redskin he has said that many times.[/B] I don't see anyone else out there with his potential (available). Now some will argue this I'm sure but it's my opinion. He has a quickness and agressivness to him that reminds me of a young Deion Sanders. Before you say "what" he's no Deion. I grew up with Deion same town and played schoolyard football with him many times. So I know what a young Deion played like up close.

This guy with the right coaching can be something great.[/quote]

Orrrr he could just be saying that repeatedly in public because he knows our track record for overpaying players.

When I think of Hall and Deion the first similarity that comes to mind - they are both terrified of contact.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;523199][url=http://redskinshogheaven.com/2009/01/final-redskins-defensive-individual-statistics-and-awards.html]FINAL Redskins Defensive Individual Statistics and Awards - Hog Heaven[/url]

Or

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2009/return-al-harris]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008[/url]


Basically:

Redskins DeAngelo Hall = one of the best seasons of the year
Raiders DeAngelo Hall = one of the worst seasons of the year
Actual DeAngelo Hall = somewhere close to the average of the two results[/quote]

Hall was OUTSTANDING during his 4 years in Atlanta.
[url=http://www.nfl.com/players/deangelohall/profile?id=HAL268837]DeAngelo Hall[/url]
He was also selected to the pro-bowl in 2005. If anything, his career shows that he was horribly misused in Oakland, a place where almost no players excel (remember how bad Randy Moss was there?). To say that the real Hall is just the "average" of his performance with two different teams in 2008 is to ignore the entire body of work in his 5 year NFL career.

In addition to being an excellent starting corner in this league, Hall is also durable. He has only missed 2 games in the past 4 years - one was in 2005 and the other was this year, as he was transitioning between two teams. He came to our team and picked up the defense very quickly. By the end of the season, he was our #1 CB and arguably playing better than any redskins cornerback since champ bailey.

I understand that you aren't ga-ga over Hall, but don't sell him short, either. If we extend him, we're not "taking a chance" on a guy whos play has been haphazard. Aside from half a season in Oakland, he's had a stellar career. If resigned here, we have every reason to expect him to be the best, most consistent, most durable cornerback we've had in years. When you have Shawn Springs, Fred Smoot, and Carlos Rogers on your roster, you can count on them either playing poorly in several games or missing large chunks of the season entirely due to injuries. With Hall, you can bank on having him start and play at a high level for[I] every [/I]game for the duration of his contract. That "safety" is worth paying a [I]little[/I] extra for, dont you think?

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=44ever;523274]He definatly is no Asante. So dont compare them. But he is the guy with the youth and the skills that the Redskins need. I don't think he would lay down after being paid. Why would he? That can be said of any player. I'm not sure why were afraid of him. He's also not afraid to come off his man to make or assist in tackles. Personally I like what I see from Hall. Offer him 14M Sign him and move on.[/quote]

If youre referring to me, i didnt compare him to Asante in the sense of saying Hall was definitely just as good of a CB. I used the contract of several CBs and (to me), If Asante got 20M garaunteed, its not unreasonable to think Hall would deserve 16... (Assante and Gamble both benefit greatly from being on teams with a very good pass rush. It stands to reason Hall and our other CBs would get even better if we upgrade our front 7 in the offseason). I also think we would be getting a bargain if we could sign him for 14. Its a negotiation, so it seems reasonable to think that Hall wouldnt ask for 16 if it would really take 16 to make him happy. I'm hoping the two sides can reach an agreement and meet somewhere in the middle. But I hope the skins are willing to be flexible. Our CB situation is way too perilous for us to play hardball. We've got to be willing to budge some from 12.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;523321]If youre referring to me, i didnt compare him to Asante in the sense of saying Hall was definitely just as good of a CB. I used the contract of several CBs and (to me), If Asante got 20M garaunteed, its not unreasonable to think Hall would deserve 16... (Assante and Gamble both benefit greatly from being on teams with a very good pass rush. It stands to reason Hall and our other CBs would get even better if we upgrade our front 7 in the offseason). I also think we would be getting a bargain if we could sign him for 14. Its a negotiation, so it seems reasonable to think that Hall wouldnt ask for 16 if it would really take 16 to make him happy. I'm hoping the two sides can reach an agreement and meet somewhere in the middle. But I hope the skins are willing to be flexible. Our CB situation is way too perilous for us to play hardball. We've got to be willing to budge some from 12.[/quote]

Not at all in fact I agree with you 100% when it comes to Hall. All I'm saying is he doesn't need to be Asante to get paid what he's worth. And he's worth 16M

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

I'm glad to see Vinny being careful with these negotiations. The Redskins have had many cap issues over the past years and have had a history of overpaying players and getting into huge contracts that financially cripple the team. I'm sure the Vinny haters are going to pounce if we do not get Hall (even though they are probably the same ones that complain about the huge signings and free agent spending). I do hope and I think we're going to get Hall signed.

I think if Hall takes a hometown discount, it would show that his attitude has changed. I mean Sean Taylor was not a model citizen, but he changed his ways. Let's hope the same thing is happening to Hall. Also, re-signing him to a reasonable price would help us in acquiring other players that are needed to fill the needs that the team has.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

My opinion (not that anybody cares) is that we obviouslly need to keep the guy. I do not know about that "at any cost" thing, but we almost cannot afford to lose him without picking up another CB else where.

Shawn Springs (as many have already pointed out) is past his prime and often injured. Many believe that he is the best corner on our team. Based on what exactly? Oh, congrats he locked down T.O. until he had to leave the game with an injury. Then Carlos picked up his slack. He is not worth his paycheck.

Carlos Rogers is (IMO) the best corner on the squad. He is even keel. He will defense any teams best reciever week in and week out. He will not get the intercecptios, but he rarely allows the big play either. The FO and others on this site should be ashamed for considering letting him go for draft picks. In reality you would not get more than 2 picks for the guy, and you would have to use one of them to attempt to replace him. It's not worth it.

Fred Smoot...I have a soft spot for Smoot, I really do. The reality is however that he is not the CB he used to be. The only reason that he should stay is because of depth and experience. I would hate to think what would happen if there wasn't a Fred Smoot to play in front of a Justin Tryon. Smoot may give up some plays at times but he unlike Springs can actually take the field most of the time. He can also be valuable to the team in terms of helping the younger guys out. He doesn't fly off to Texas in the middle of the week.

Justin Tryon...do not get me started. He has alot to learn and his youth alone gives him another shot at the squad in the offseason.

So as you can see if we do not keep Hall we are going to be in a world of hurt at the CB position. Especially if we trade Rogers. Everybody saw what our defense was like in the 4th quarter this past season...giving up big plays and not getting off of the field. We already have a suspect D line. If we compound that with a weaker secondary, then our defense will really be frustrating to watch when the game is on the line.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

i think we should low ball him, we need to start making smart contract deals, give him less guarnateed and more incentives. give him a $2 mil bonus for not getting burned like he always does. That would be money well spent. We all know danny got money but to give out high guarenteed contract to a dude who is known to slack is just stupid

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

I think the redskins and hall can meet halfway if both are really seriously interested in having hall being a redskin and if these really are the proposed numbers - I say somewhere around $14m.

Hall is a very good cover corner with underrated skills; he's not a shutdown corner, but who is nowadays? Plus he provides some threat to opposing qbs in his ability to snatch interceptions and return skills. That's something that the redskins lack in the secondary.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;523318]Hall was OUTSTANDING during his 4 years in Atlanta.
[URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/deangelohall/profile?id=HAL268837"]DeAngelo Hall[/URL]
He was also selected to the pro-bowl in 2005. If anything, his career shows that he was horribly misused in Oakland, a place where almost no players excel (remember how bad Randy Moss was there?). To say that the real Hall is just the "average" of his performance with two different teams in 2008 is to ignore the entire body of work in his 5 year NFL career.

In addition to being an excellent starting corner in this league, Hall is also durable. He has only missed 2 games in the past 4 years - one was in 2005 and the other was this year, as he was transitioning between two teams. He came to our team and picked up the defense very quickly. By the end of the season, he was our #1 CB and arguably playing better than any redskins cornerback since champ bailey.

I understand that you aren't ga-ga over Hall, but don't sell him short, either. If we extend him, we're not "taking a chance" on a guy whos play has been haphazard. Aside from half a season in Oakland, he's had a stellar career. If resigned here, we have every reason to expect him to be the best, most consistent, most durable cornerback we've had in years. When you have Shawn Springs, Fred Smoot, and Carlos Rogers on your roster, you can count on them either playing poorly in several games or missing large chunks of the season entirely due to injuries. With Hall, you can bank on having him start and play at a high level for[I] every [/I]game for the duration of his contract. That "safety" is worth paying a [I]little[/I] extra for, dont you think?[/quote]I'm not trying to sell him short, but I also can't act like he wasn't heavily overrated in Atlanta.

One thing that he DID do well in Atlanta was improve a little bit each year he was there. But I mean, at no point in Atlanta did he ever look like he would be a shutdown corner. That much is clear.

I can say some nice things about the guy. He IS improving as a player on a yearly basis. He does have fantastic ball skills. He was deserving of a starting spot on this team based on his play alone.

But my opinions on Hall aren't ignoring his time in Atlanta. Actually, it's quite the opposite. He was going to pro bowls in Atlanta well before he could actually cover any teams' number one receiver.

This isn't a new opinion I've had because of the Oakland days, here's me from 12-04-07:

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/388701-post22.html[/url]

(I also found [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/433195-post32.html"]this[/URL] which has nothing to do with D Hall)

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;523332]I'm glad to see Vinny being careful with these negotiations. The Redskins have had many cap issues over the past years and have had a history of overpaying players and getting into huge contracts that financially cripple the team. I'm sure the Vinny haters are going to pounce if we do not get Hall (even though they are probably the same ones that complain about the huge signings and free agent spending). I do hope and I think we're going to get Hall signed.

I think if Hall takes a hometown discount, it would show that his attitude has changed. I mean Sean Taylor was not a model citizen, but he changed his ways. Let's hope the same thing is happening to Hall. Also, re-signing him to a reasonable price would help us in acquiring other players that are needed to fill the needs that the team has.[/quote]

IMO Halls previous issues had more to do with his youth, than anything else. They guy was a very young 20 years old when he was drafted.... and its not like the Atlanta had ANY older mature, responsible players to take him under thier wings and help him mature. The "role model" figure on that team (and, according to Wilbon, black youths everywhere, not just in the NFL) was michael vick. And we all know what a horrible role model he turned out to be.

Hall saw how his role model paid the consequences for his actions. Unless he's an idiot, he learned alot from that. He's learned first hand how signing a huge contract doesnt bring him happiness, as he was miserable in Oakland. Now, he's come back home and has played half a season for the team who he grew up rooting for. He's benefitted from playing with some mature veteran players. He's specifically said how much he looks up to London Fletcher - a leader and a class act if there ever was one.

As far as i'm concerned, Hall has demonstrated that his reckless off the field issues are behind him... and even if they arent completely, he's certainly made great strides and if he's here, he'll benefit greatly from the older guys here. He's certainly worth 14-16M garaunteed over 6 years. Based on the facts at hand, this is a low risk, high reward situation for us. We just need to make sure we don't create any ill-will towards him by refusing to meet him in the middle with his contract request.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

I suppose the problem isn't that he's got a poor work ethic, because he's clearly getting better with experience, but that he's just lacking a few skills that all elite corners have: route recognition, the ability to close on a dime, and stuff like that. He's certainly a good player, Oakland days aside, but he's also a known quantity at this point, and he's not known as a special, elite player.

I won't use the word average around him, because he does do some skills exceptionally well. But he also has glaring weaknesses that we can't ignore since NFL QBs don't.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

With Shawn "Sprain" (who needs to be traded or released), Smoot (who is a real redskin but aging), Carlos Rogers (who pretty much got benched in the second half of the season), and JT Tryon (no comment necessary) as the CB's on our roster. Signing Hall would be a prudent decision. However, all business deals start with a low offer then a gradual increase to a final number which offers one party a fair payscale and the other a vaule for price paid. I believe they'll get the deal done.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;523332]I'm glad to see Vinny being careful with these negotiations. The Redskins have had many cap issues over the past years and have had a history of overpaying players and getting into huge contracts that financially cripple the team. I'm sure the Vinny haters are going to pounce if we do not get Hall (even though they are probably the same ones that complain about the huge signings and free agent spending). I do hope and I think we're going to get Hall signed.

I think if Hall takes a hometown discount, it would show that his attitude has changed. I mean Sean Taylor was not a model citizen, but he changed his ways. Let's hope the same thing is happening to Hall. Also, re-signing him to a reasonable price would help us in acquiring other players that are needed to fill the needs that the team has.[/quote]

I think this is a realistic point of view Ruhskins. I don't think he needs to sign for a discount. I just think there needs to be a well balanced agreement. One that doesn't insult Hall and at the same time keep our $ in order. Dont fool yourself. I garantee other teams would take him quick. And next season we can be talking about why did VC let him go.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

Hall will be signed and will probably be the biggest Redskin signing this off-season. Those that say he should be signed "at any price" ignore the economics of the cap and the NFL. This team is way too heavy with old, expensive vets to keep ignoring the fact that they tend ot overpay for players.

We need Hall and and will resign him. However the team must also make decisions on several defensive players who simply cost too much: Jason Taylor, Shawn Springs and cornelius Griffin.

People on these boards always want to keep the veterans that they know - but eventually these guys cost too much for their production.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;523343]I suppose the problem isn't that he's got a poor work ethic, because he's clearly getting better with experience, but that he's just lacking a few skills that all elite corners have: route recognition, the ability to close on a dime, and stuff like that. He's certainly a good player, Oakland days aside, but he's also a known quantity at this point, and he's not known as a special, elite player.

I won't use the word average around him, because he does do some skills exceptionally well. But he also has glaring weaknesses that we can't ignore since NFL QBs don't.[/quote]

Hall has all the athletic ability. Of the couple things you mention; he can close on a dime & has tremendous speed. The first is spot on IMO; "route recognition." That typically comes from study, knowing tendencies of teams & wr's. Hall ain't into that. It was the same way when he was in college. I remember a friend of mine calling him underated after we left a VT game in which he got burnt. Word from insiders was that he was a problem for coaches & players. He was widely regarded as one of the reasons the 03 Hokies went from top 5 to losing a bowl to Cal & giving up 52 points, just because of the divisiness he created on the team. Seems those ways came w/him to the nfl. Has he learned? I don't know, if he gets paid he'll likely continue his ways & play undisciplined at a position that requires great discipline.

He was a top 10 draft pick due to his athletic ability & potential, not his actual performance. He could be a true shut down cb, but that would require some work in practice, which he's never believed he needs.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

I wish people would stop taking pft.com rumors are truth.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=Buster;523361]I wish people would stop taking pft.com rumors are truth.[/quote]

Lawyers, coaches and players use this venue to argue their cause or issue. Truth is relative, as any story gets printed.

Personally, I see Hall being hired as both sides want it and his value is whatever someone will pay for him.

Ppl here are complaining about X dollars for Hall when we are paying Springs about a $1 mill a game, or about $2 mill for each Jason Taylor sack. Both of those guys had less games last season [I]together [/I]than Hall played.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

There is no doubting Hall's talent. I think there is a reason why teams stopped targeting Hall late in the season, and in my opinion Hall is worth every cent of 16 million (or whatever amount Synder gives him). I'm with Ruhskins on how Hall is portrayed by some of you guystalk about his "bad character". [B]GIVE IT A REST[/B] He had a coach who quit in the middle of the seson and yapped on ESPN. WHO Gives A F... I mean we had ST (allegedly) pulling guns on people nice guy but he was somewhat shady. [B]BUT[/B] he matured and changed and so will Hall.

Point is I expect for him to Re-sign and have a [U]pro bowl[/U] year

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[IMG]http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/Rickrolled.gif[/IMG]

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

He's baaaaack! About to hit 1,000!

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

being the draft expert that i am, i thought its about tiem that i get back to it.

ill have my mock draft posted soemtime real soon. i think youll be in for some pleasant surprises and a few shockers.

[IMG]http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/20/lol_seisure.gif[/IMG]

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

for 1001, id like to let you know, its ya boy pwned and im back.

[IMG]http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/look_2.gif[/IMG]

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

get a pass rush and we will not need elite corners. its pretty simple

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=mehtadman87;523337]i think we should low ball him, we need to start making smart contract deals, give him less guarnateed and more incentives. give him a $2 mil bonus for not getting burned like he always does. That would be money well spent. We all know danny got money but to give out high guarenteed contract to a dude who is known to slack is just stupid[/quote]

where do you get this stuff about slacking. Have you acually followed his carrier? The guy is a great talent and will only get better. Stop believing the rumors. He's for real.

Funny how we wish we had this guy or that guy but when we get a chance at something good we won't see it. This guy goes somewhere else we will regret it.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=jrocx69;523473]get a pass rush and we will not need elite corners. its pretty simple[/quote]

Well you sort of need both.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=Angry;523336]My opinion (not that anybody cares) is that we obviouslly need to keep the guy. I do not know about that "at any cost" thing, but we almost cannot afford to lose him without picking up another CB else where.

Shawn Springs (as many have already pointed out) is past his prime and often injured. Many believe that he is the best corner on our team. Based on what exactly? Oh, congrats he locked down T.O. until he had to leave the game with an injury. Then Carlos picked up his slack. He is not worth his paycheck.

Carlos Rogers is (IMO) the best corner on the squad. He is even keel. He will defense any teams best reciever week in and week out. He will not get the intercecptios, but he rarely allows the big play either. The FO and others on this site should be ashamed for considering letting him go for draft picks. In reality you would not get more than 2 picks for the guy, and you would have to use one of them to attempt to replace him. It's not worth it.

Fred Smoot...I have a soft spot for Smoot, I really do. The reality is however that he is not the CB he used to be. The only reason that he should stay is because of depth and experience. I would hate to think what would happen if there wasn't a Fred Smoot to play in front of a Justin Tryon. Smoot may give up some plays at times but he unlike Springs can actually take the field most of the time. He can also be valuable to the team in terms of helping the younger guys out. He doesn't fly off to Texas in the middle of the week.

Justin Tryon...do not get me started. He has alot to learn and his youth alone gives him another shot at the squad in the offseason.

So as you can see if we do not keep Hall we are going to be in a world of hurt at the CB position. Especially if we trade Rogers. Everybody saw what our defense was like in the 4th quarter this past season...giving up big plays and not getting off of the field. We already have a suspect D line. If we compound that with a weaker secondary, then our defense will really be frustrating to watch when the game is on the line.[/quote]

Agree with the whole thing. Haha just supporting someone not supporting ignorance. A lot of people say they hate Cerratto and then support decisions that only Vinny Cerratto would continue to make at this point. Thats the problem with him, he's like a fan running a team, he just wants big names and doesn't know how to build. but reallly good post.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=jrocx69;523473]get a pass rush and we will not need elite corners. its pretty simple[/quote]

Apparently that's the way Fred Smoot sees it nowdays. Although I tend to agree with Ruhskins. You need them both.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

You don't need "elite corners" anymore primarly because of the new pass interference and force out rules.... but you do need good corners, whether you have a pass rush or not.

Smoot is not even a good corner anymore. Tryons not either. Springs is not worth his contract. If we don't resign Hall and keep Rogers, we are going to have to address our starting corner situation whether we add a pass rush or not.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;523843]You don't need "elite corners" anymore primarly because of the new pass interference and force out rules.... but you do need good corners, whether you have a pass rush or not.

Smoot is not even a good corner anymore. Tryons not either. Springs is not worth his contract. If we don't resign Hall and keep Rogers, we are going to have to address our starting corner situation whether we add a pass rush or not.[/quote]

I'm afraid we might actually find ourselves in that position if we are not careful.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

Love Smoot, but he shouldn't be expected to be more than a nickel CB at this point. That being said though, I think he played hurt a lot when others wouldn't have. Assuming he's healthy in 2009, I think he'll be a lot better.

Love Springs, but his window is probably pretty close to shut now at CB (at Safety, that's another issue). I think he's far and away our best defensive back when he's out there on the field. And I think his fragility is way overrated. But as he gets older his body can't keep up. For the current price it's hard to justify keeping him.

I thought we made a mistake with Tryon when we could have drafted what I thought were better DBs. And I wasn't impressed with him in the preseason, maybe because I had already decided I didn't like him. That said though, he did alright on special teams last year. And he got some playing time late in the year where he didn't really embarass himself or the team on D.

Still, it shouldn't be an either/or with Rogers and Hall. Ideally, they both come back

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;523847]Love Smoot, but he shouldn't be expected to be more than a nickel CB at this point. That being said though, I think he played hurt a lot when others wouldn't have. Assuming he's healthy in 2009, I think he'll be a lot better.

Love Springs, but his window is probably pretty close to shut now at CB (at Safety, that's another issue). I think he's far and away our best defensive back when he's out there on the field. And I think his fragility is way overrated. But as he gets older his body can't keep up. For the current price it's hard to justify keeping him.

I thought we made a mistake with Tryon when we could have drafted what I thought were better DBs. And I wasn't impressed with him in the preseason, maybe because I had already decided I didn't like him. That said though, he did alright on special teams last year. And he got some playing time late in the year where he didn't really embarass himself or the team on D.

[B]Still, it shouldn't be an either/or with Rogers and Hall. Ideally, they both come back[/B][/quote]

Amen.

... still a little peeved we let Torrence go (instead of Tryon). Certainly he needed to improve but he'd come a long way IMO and showed promise. For one thing I think he was insane fast.

Questions about Springs: does he not want to play safety? Blache has mentioned the transition in a positive light but i can't remember Springs responding. Also, what's your intuition about a restructured deal: will he deal or just prefer to play elsewhere?

... last question will anyone pay Springs more than we're willing to (at the restructured price)?

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=The Goat;523872]Amen.

... still a little peeved we let Torrence go (instead of Tryon). Certainly he needed to improve but he'd come a long way IMO and showed promise. For one thing I think he was insane fast.

Questions about Springs: does he not want to play safety? Blache has mentioned the transition in a positive light but i can't remember Springs responding. Also, what's your intuition about a restructured deal: will he deal or just prefer to play elsewhere?

... last question will anyone pay Springs more than we're willing to (at the restructured price)?[/quote]

yeah I'm peeved about Leigh Torrnce, Ryan Clark, and Antonio Pierce ...what great minds run the Redskins...don't ya just love Vinnie and danny boy

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=The Goat;523872]Amen.

[B]... still a little peeved we let Torrence go (instead of Tryon).[/B] Certainly he needed to improve but he'd come a long way IMO and showed promise. For one thing I think he was insane fast.

Questions about Springs: does he not want to play safety? Blache has mentioned the transition in a positive light but i can't remember Springs responding. Also, what's your intuition about a restructured deal: will he deal or just prefer to play elsewhere?

... last question will anyone pay Springs more than we're willing to (at the restructured price)?[/quote]

That was one of the things that annoyed me most all season. Torrence is young and has been in the system for a few years. Definitely better than Tryon at this point. I think the move was made so Vinny's draft wouldn't look worse - more pride than brains IMO.

I think Torrence is a free agent again, although with Gregg Williams taking over their D in NO, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept him. I'd like to have him back though. However, they need secondary help something terrible, so they may draft a CB high or make a big FA signing.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

I thought Torrence had made great strides last summer, but it didn't really reflect in the regular season. I think the feeling was that this was as good as Torrence was going to get. Who knows. I've heard a lot of good things about Tryon in practice and from other experts I guess you'd call them, but who knows that he'll ever be better than Torrence either.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=GMScud;523878]That was one of the things that annoyed me most all season. Torrence is young and has been in the system for a few years. Definitely better than Tryon at this point. I think the move was made so Vinny's draft wouldn't look worse - more pride than brains IMO.

I think Torrence is a free agent again, although with Gregg Williams taking over their D in NO, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept him. I'd like to have him back though. However, they need secondary help something terrible, so they may draft a CB high or make a big FA signing.[/quote]

What do you want to bet Grilliams would be in the market for Los if our FO is really going to shop him?

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=The Goat;523884]What do you want to bet Grilliams would be in the market for Los if our FO is really going to shop him?[/quote]

Good call. I could see that.