Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=GMScud;523886]Good call. I could see that.[/quote]

Wonder if the same could happen w/ Marcus. Personally I was surprised to hear he wants to leave (if the rumor is true) and then thought maybe he wants to play for Williams.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

This pisses me off....
They should offer Carlos a contract first....he is steady.

If they offer Deangelo anything...it should be a 1 year deal to prove himself...I just dont trust him yet.

The real issue is where we choose to spend our money....at corner?....cmon...
Everyone says we need a major line overhaul...and I tend to agree.
Even Smoot could cover if we had a passrush and an offensive line that could keep the defense off the field...or better yet....a heavy lead.

Maybe I am wrong..maybe they are trying to secure Hall first so they can offer Carlos the same or $1 more to make up with him....but all I know is this.
Losing Carlos Rodgers would be like losing Antonio Pierce.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=skinsnut;523896]This pisses me off....
They should offer Carlos a contract first....he is steady.

If they offer Deangelo anything...it should be a 1 year deal to prove himself...I just dont trust him yet.

The real issue is where we choose to spend our money....at corner?....cmon...
Everyone says we need a major line overhaul...and I tend to agree.
Even Smoot could cover if we had a passrush and an offensive line that could keep the defense off the field...or better yet....a heavy lead.

Maybe I am wrong..maybe they are trying to secure Hall first so they can offer Carlos the same or $1 more to make up with him....but all I know is this.
Losing Carlos Rodgers would be like losing Antonio Pierce.[/quote]

i think your right. at the MOST, offer deangelo a 2 year deal so you can see if he really matured or just was acting so he can get a contract next year.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=The Goat;523891]Wonder if the same could happen w/ Marcus. Personally I was surprised to hear he wants to leave (if the rumor is true) and then thought maybe he wants to play for Williams.[/quote]

That I think is less likely. They are set at MLB and LOLB with Vilma and Fujita. The other guy out of Nebraska, Scott Shanle, started all 16 games for them last year at ROLB and had around 90 tackles, plus he's younger than Marcus.

I never heard that Marcus wanted to leave. I love the dude's motor and heart, but he's lost a step, he's expensive, and he's just hurt too much.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=skinsnut;523896]This pisses me off....
They should offer Carlos a contract first....he is steady.

If they offer Deangelo anything...it should be a 1 year deal to prove himself...I just dont trust him yet.

The real issue is where we choose to spend our money....at corner?....cmon...
Everyone says we need a major line overhaul...and I tend to agree.
Even Smoot could cover if we had a passrush and an offensive line that could keep the defense off the field...or better yet....a heavy lead.

Maybe I am wrong..maybe they are trying to secure Hall first so they can offer Carlos the same or $1 more to make up with him....but all I know is this.
Losing Carlos Rodgers would be like losing Antonio Pierce.[/quote]

Rogers still has a year on his deal, there's no need to extend him now.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=skinsnut;523896]This pisses me off....
They should offer Carlos a contract first....he is steady.

If they offer Deangelo anything...it should be a 1 year deal to prove himself...I just dont trust him yet.

The real issue is where we choose to spend our money....at corner?....cmon...
Everyone says we need a major line overhaul...and I tend to agree.
Even Smoot could cover if we had a passrush and an offensive line that could keep the defense off the field...or better yet....a heavy lead.

Maybe I am wrong..maybe they are trying to secure Hall first so they can offer Carlos the same or $1 more to make up with him....but all I know is this.
[b]Losing Carlos Rodgers would be like losing Antonio Pierce.[/b][/quote]
Wow, that's as big of an overstatement as I've seen in a long time. Rogers isn't a top 20 CB in the NFL. He had a decent half of a season and all of the sudden he's one of the greats in the game? He's got the WORST hands of any CB I've ever seen. He's decent in coverage but at best he's an excellent #2 CB, he's not in the class with the elite #1 CB in the league. Hall is a major upgrade from Rogers.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=skinsnut;523896]This pisses me off....
They should offer Carlos a contract first....he is steady.

[B]If they offer Deangelo anything...it should be a 1 year deal to prove himself...I just dont trust him yet.[/B]
The real issue is where we choose to spend our money....at corner?....cmon...
Everyone says we need a major line overhaul...and I tend to agree.
Even Smoot could cover if we had a passrush and an offensive line that could keep the defense off the field...or better yet....a heavy lead.

Maybe I am wrong..maybe they are trying to secure Hall first so they can offer Carlos the same or $1 more to make up with him....but all I know is this.
Losing Carlos Rodgers would be like losing Antonio Pierce.[/quote]

You're serious?

What is it that you don't trust about Hall. It can't be his hands, or his coverage ability. Carlos Rogers is probably not even in the top 25 at the CB position. When you get benched for a guy who plays 4 games per season and a CB who you got off waivers in freakin November I think thats telling you something dude.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=GMScud;523911]That I think is less likely. They are set at MLB and LOLB with Vilma and Fujita. The other guy out of Nebraska, Scott Shanle, started all 16 games for them last year at ROLB and had around 90 tackles, plus he's younger than Marcus.

I never heard that Marcus wanted to leave. I love the dude's motor and heart, but he's lost a step, he's expensive, and he's just hurt too much.[/quote]

Vilma isn't a lock to come back, though it's likely. And the Saints are definitely looking for another linebacker. They have cap issues though, so it will likely come via the draft.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;523950]Vilma isn't a lock to come back, [B]though it's likely.[/B] And the Saints are definitely looking for another linebacker. They have cap issues though, so it will likely come via the draft.[/quote]

Yeah, we all know how G.Williams loves to have that stub MLB to quarterback his defense. I suppose most D-Coordinators do, but still.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=vallin21;523943]You're serious?

What is it that you don't trust about Hall. It can't be his hands, or his coverage ability. Carlos Rogers is probably not even in the top 25 at the CB position. When you get benched for a guy who plays 4 games per season and a CB who you got off waivers in freakin November I think thats telling you something dude.[/quote]
Interesting insight.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=vallin21;523943]You're serious?

What is it that you don't trust about Hall. It can't be his hands, or his coverage ability. Carlos Rogers is probably not even in the top 25 at the CB position. When you get benched for a guy who plays 4 games per season and a CB who you got off waivers in freakin November I think thats telling you something dude.[/quote]What it tells me is that our coordinator on that side of the ball is clueless.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=Paintrain;523934]Wow, that's as big of an overstatement as I've seen in a long time. Rogers isn't a top 20 CB in the NFL. [B]He had a decent half of a season[/B] and all of the sudden he's one of the greats in the game? He's got the WORST hands of any CB I've ever seen. He's decent in coverage but at best he's an excellent #2 CB, he's not in the class with the elite #1 CB in the league. Hall is a major upgrade from Rogers.[/quote]How is Rogers not a Top 20 CB in the NFL? Which 20 guys would you put ahead of him?

Bad hands, bad hands, bad hands...he plays defense. Who cares? Hands are an added incentive -- added value -- not a job requirement.

Hall is not a top 40 CB in the NFL, but whatever. You crap on Rogers for a "decent half season" (it's now one and a half seasons with a MAJOR knee injury in between), but Hall has a nice half season here and you want to put him in the Hall of Fame.

I have no idea what your criteria for a good CB is. Thusly, I could not disagree more with your assessment.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;524000]What it tells me is that our coordinator on that side of the ball is clueless.[/quote]

yeah i've never figured out why Blache put Los on the pine. There's a story there and i'm surprised it's stayed private this long... initially i thought Blache and/or Grey might have benched Los in a weird stunt to get him seeing the game differently, slower and calmer, which would help him see the ball better and actually get it into his hands (i know this is improbable and a little bizarre but it's all i came up with). Los makes a nice INT the very next game, showing improvement and promise, but still we hear rumors of a trade. It's puzzling to say the least.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=The Goat;524002]yeah i've never figured out why Blache put Los on the pine. There's a story there and i'm surprised it's stayed private this long... initially i thought Blache and/or Grey might have benched Los in a weird stunt to get him seeing the game differently, slower and calmer, which would help him see the ball better and actually get it into his hands (i know this is improbable and a little bizarre but it's all i came up with). Los makes a nice INT the very next game, showing improvement and promise, but still we hear rumors of a trade. It's puzzling to say the least.[/quote]And it's retarded to say the most.

I hear the phrase "I hope I'm not reading into this too much" often, but in this case, I really hope I'm not reading into this enough. Because on the surface, what you have is a top ten -- maybe top fifteen depending on how much you value the ability to not drop three INTs per year -- CB in the NFL, who can't start because our stupid coordinator has a fetish with house blitzes and DeAngelo Hall.

Not saying that Hall didn't deserve to play based on how he was playing at the end of last year. I am saying that I don't expect him to ever play that well for a full season again in his career (it was still a down year for him if we take in the Oakland data), and we could have started both Rogers and Hall. But god forbid we actually play our best players.

Which means that the conditions seem right for an inside story here that simply haven't hit the papers. Maybe Rogers kicked Blache's dog or something. Because this fight is stupid and it's killing our secondary.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

word.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

I actually think this is just fallout from the Baltimore game. Blache blitzed only twice all game long, and the defense played a very good game. Unfortunately, on the second blitz, Rogers got owned on the outside by the best receiver no one ever talks about, Derrick Mason, who (as I noted in my game breakdown) had been setting Rogers up all day for that double move, and ran a textbook route. Rogers looked awful, Blache gave him zero safety help, no pressure on Flacco, and the result was predictable. After that, apparently, he wasn't good enough to play for us.

I mean, you tell me. If Blache is really afraid of making Rogers look that bad, there seems like a better way to do it than benching him. How about, don't blitz if the opponent has been doing max protect stuff all game long?

This is only my opinion, but Rogers is simply the one guy that Blache didn't feel bad about blaming for his own mistakes. Coaches do tend to develop relationships with their players, and Blache was commenting on how well Rogers was playing earlier in the year, how far ahead of schedule he was. But if Blache doesn't value his relationship with CR, then all he has to do to make people forget the defensive collapse at the end of the year is trade the guy.

Then we can collapse all year! Yay!

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=The Goat;523884]What do you want to bet Grilliams would be in the market for Los if our FO is really going to shop him?[/quote]
hadn't thought of that but sounds reasonable

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;524000]What it tells me is that our coordinator on that side of the ball is clueless.[/quote]

I know you're not a fan of Blache but I think it's a stretch to call him clueless. If that's the case then we must have a hella talented team to overcome his cluelessness.

He must have had his reasons for benching Carlos, and they are reasons we'll probably never know.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

Re-sign Hall, then cut Springs (who can't stay on the field anyway). Problem solved. Hall & Rogers start.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;524043]Re-sign Hall, then cut Springs (who can't stay on the field anyway). Problem solved. Hall & Rogers start.[/quote]

that's probably what we should do.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;524037]I know you're not a fan of Blache but I think it's a stretch to call him clueless. If that's the case then we must have a hella talented team to overcome his cluelessness.

He must have had his reasons for benching Carlos, and they are reasons we'll probably never know.[/quote]The act was one of cluelessness. One act does not define a man, but what scares me is that his reasons most likely weren't good reasons.

It's true that we don't know what they were. He's never come out and actually justified his reasoning. He's just sort of dodged the issue and openly worked to trade him.

I think he should man up and handle the issue like an adult, but I'd be cool if we just fired him.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

When did Blache openly work to trade Rogers?

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;524072]When did Blache openly work to trade Rogers?[/quote]Well, Rogers openly discussed being traded due to Blache's mismanagement of his situation.

So perhaps both parties are responsible for the trade rumors. Either way, this shouldn't have happened.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

i agree i dont like how we've handled Los situation. seems this year there has been alot of non-communication going on between the players and coaches. jansen is benched and not told why, portis not knowing or caring to check in with the coaches to see if he should be on the field or not, portis not knowing whether he should stay and block or chip and release then cites communication errors in coaches telling him to do 2 different things, los getting benched not told why, man i know theres more.

ABOUT D HALL, i originally wasnt for signing him b/c of his attitude (got burnt by a reciever, then missed the tackle then hits the guy late gets falgged all b/c he was made to look stupid), the way he plays off receivers then tries to jump routes for ints (yeah i know ints are great and we need them but not at the expense of hall gambling by baiting a qb), the fact that as talented as he seems he has been bounced around alot in his relatively short career .. . . with all that said, the current situation we are in we now have made a situation where we cant afford to lose hall and create another area of need. we just are not set up cap or draft wise to beable to handle another area of need beyond OL, DT, OLB.

go skins!!

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

Carlos Rogers was not "mishandled" or "misused" his play was horrible which is why he got benched, and his hands were a liability as well. Ranking 4th overall defensively tells me Blache is doing something right. As for Hall, we can agree to disagree, but if you look at production over the course of 3 years Hall is at least a top 15 corner.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;524068]The act was one of cluelessness. One act does not define a man, [B]but what scares me is that his reasons most likely weren't good reasons.[/B]

It's true that we don't know what they were. He's never come out and actually justified his reasoning. He's just sort of dodged the issue and openly worked to trade him.

I think he should man up and handle the issue like an adult, but I'd be cool if we just fired him.[/quote]

If you don't know what those reasons were, how can you say they likely weren't good reasons??

I guess the easy thing to do around here is to just assume the worst. And for some reasons the players are always the ones in the right. I don't get it. Even going back to the whole Arrington fiasco a lot of people were so convinced it was the coaches screwing him over and Arrington was somehow an innocent victim. Perhaps this happens because we rarely hear the coach's side of things, and it's always the players spouting off in the media.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;523950]Vilma isn't a lock to come back, though it's likely. And the Saints are definitely looking for another linebacker. They have cap issues though, so it will likely come via the draft.[/quote]

On a side note, I don't know if it was mentioned, but wasn't Dan Morgan talking about coming back? That would work out nice for them if he's still in game shape.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=vallin21;524090][B]Carlos Rogers was not "mishandled" or "misused" his play was horrible which is why he got benched[/B], and his hands were a liability as well. Ranking 4th overall defensively tells me Blache is doing something right. As for Hall, we can agree to disagree, but if you look at production over the course of 3 years Hall is at least a top 15 corner.[/quote]

I would hardly say his play was horrible. No one will argue that he has bad hands, but he was being talked about as a pro-bowl caliber player emerging as an elite defender during the first half of the season. He may have faded a bit and had a rift with Blache prior to being benched, but calling him horrible is a huge overstatement IMO.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

Carlos "Stone Hands" Rogers was actually a pretty good corner. I was looking for, but could not find, the article demonstrating that, in many ways Rogers was a top 10 corner. At the time of his benching, I thought he was doing very well in stopping receivers and, when the inevitable catches did happen, he made some nice tackles to limit YAC.

IMHO, if the guy caught half of the balls that hit him in the hands, he would be a pro-bowl corner....

or a star in the sequel "Brokeback Mountain II".

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

haha that last part was wrong on some many levels, lol.

go skins!!

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

it's be best IMO to just leave the 2ndary alone. maybe draft some young talent in later rounds.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;524121]Carlos "Stone Hands" Rogers was actually a pretty good corner. I was looking for, but could not find, the article demonstrating that, in many ways Rogers was a top 10 corner. At the time of his benching, I thought he was doing very well in stopping receivers and, when the inevitable catches did happen, he made some nice tackles to limit YAC.

[B]IMHO, if the guy caught half of the balls that hit him in the hands, he would be a pro-bowl corner....[/B]

or a star in the sequel "Brokeback Mountain II".[/quote]

Agreed. Basically he has to "grow" hands and he'll be pro-bowler and that's a big reason why i think it's nuts to show him the door now. Really nuts. Really, really nuts.

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=The Goat;524154]Agreed. Basically he has to "grow" hands and he'll be pro-bowler and that's a big reason why i think it's nuts to show him the door now. Really nuts. Really, really nuts.[/quote]

A little too much discussion of nuts and balls going around here....

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

You know, you're right... :)

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=GMScud;524158]A little too much discussion of nuts and balls going around here....[/quote]

Hey this is after all a thread about "low-balling". Stop being such a :postcop:

LOL. :headbange

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;524165]Hey [B]this is after all a thread about "low-balling".[/B] Stop being such a :postcop:

LOL. :headbange[/quote]

That's what I meant- low-balling, nuts nuts nuts, numerous balls hitting rogers in the hands... the imagery is disturbing. :)

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=GMScud;524169]That's what I meant- low-balling, nuts nuts nuts, numerous balls hitting rogers in the hands... the imagery is disturbing. :)[/quote]

Word. I mean watching Rogers play sometimes, I mean he's got the great coverage, he reads the pass, he breaks in front of the receiver, there is no one beween him and the end zone, he makes a play for the ball, the fans get all excited, this is it, it's going to happen, and then...he drops it!

Seriously...it's like getting blue balled

Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)
 

[quote=vallin21;524090]Carlos Rogers was not "mishandled" or "misused" his play was horrible which is why he got benched, and his hands were a liability as well. Ranking 4th overall defensively tells me Blache is doing something right. As for Hall, we can agree to disagree, but if you look at production over the course of 3 years Hall is at least a top 15 corner.[/quote]I'm sorry you have a great player right under your nose and can't see it, but I'm going to let the back and forth die here. Clearly, you don't respect talent when you see it, but I'll try not to get worked up over it.

It's baffling to me that you can be so wrong on so many things in a short post, but I'll at least respect your right to disagree with me.