Derrick Dockery:
 

I was a big fan of Dockery while he was here. Progressed every year, seemed like a good solid guy, etc. I wished we could have kept him, but no way we could have paid what Buffalo did for him, unfortunately.

Anyhow, I just want to know how he's doing in Buffalo, I havent seen any of their games and I'm not sure where to go to see good stats for Olinemen =/

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

He is doing damn good in Buffalo and his opening pretty big holes for Lynch

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

ive never been a big fan. he's immobile and made alot of mental mistakes. he was very streaky, and in one instant would look like the most powerful player in football, and the very next he would lose leverage on a guy half his size, get beat for a sack to a dt, and lose confidence... then were the penalties...

wasn't too sad to see him leave personally, but I did see where the bills qbs have been sacked among the most in the league, and their o line is among the most penalized (didn't look it up, but a friend is a bills fan and is constantly bitching about the o line... not dock in particular, but the oline in general.)

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[url=http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.php]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2007[/url]

Dockery, as much as we can deduce from these numbers (i.e. not much) is doing unspectacular. There is no gaping hole on the Bills line, and it's strongest hole in run blocking is running inside the right tackle-guard hole. Can't really credit Dockery for that.

He's playing next to one of the most respected LTs in the game, so I was actually expecting more from their OL numbers, but it's not really Dockery's fault persay. It's someone's fault on the Bills though, be it Marshawn Lynch or whoever.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=GTripp0012;378722][URL="http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.php"]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2007[/URL]

Dockery, as much as we can deduce from these numbers (i.e. not much) is doing unspectacular. There is no gaping hole on the Bills line, and it's strongest hole in run blocking is running inside the right tackle-guard hole. Can't really credit Dockery for that.

He's playing next to one of the most respected LTs in the game, so I was actually expecting more from their OL numbers, but it's not really Dockery's fault persay. It's someone's fault on the Bills though, be it Marshawn Lynch or whoever.[/quote]

In the end, while we can't tell much from the numbers, it does seem to say one thing:

Not quite worth $49 million.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

We all would have liked to have kept him but not at that price. With the needs we have going into next season I don't see how anyone could really question the decision to let him go.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=Schneed10;378776]In the end, while we can't tell much from the numbers, it does seem to say one thing:

Not quite worth $49 million.[/quote]It's a shame we didn't resign him going into the last season of his contract as we did with Cooley. I bet he could have been had for $30M with a $10M signing bonus.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

Yeah. We spent $10 million guaranteed on Lloyd who caught 2 passes for 14 yds this season and will probably NEVER wear a Redskins uniform again!
I coulda done more!

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

for that kind of cash, I'd rather have A. Rod

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

Not worth the money, when does that count for anything with this team. Lets give the richest safety contract ever to Arch, oh and lets give another FA WR diva 30+ million w/ 10Mil up front and lets give another WR who averages 30 catches a year 30+million w/ 10+ upfront. But lets not sign one of our own draft picks who has been way better than average, built chemistry with the other 4 lineman, is young only getting better, and has been a rock at LG since drafting him.

Yeah, thats a great move!

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

All I know is he's not living up to that monster contract that's for sure. Decent player, way, way, way overpaid.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=#56fanatic;378807]Not worth the money, when does that count for anything with this team. Lets give the richest safety contract ever to Arch, oh and lets give another FA WR diva 30+ million w/ 10Mil up front and lets give another WR who averages 30 catches a year 30+million w/ 10+ upfront. But lets not sign one of our own draft picks who has been way better than average, built chemistry with the other 4 lineman, is young only getting better, and has been a rock at LG since drafting him.

Yeah, thats a great move![/quote]The signings of Betts, Sellers, and Cooley before they could hit free agency is a solid indication that the Skins finally understand the mistake they made by not locking up guys like Pierce and Dockery earlier. This strategy must be continued with Sean Taylor and Campbell. What seemed like a lot of money to re-sign Doc in Sept 2006 looked like a bargain in March 2007.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=Mattyk72;378809]All I know is he's not living up to that monster contract that's for sure. Decent player, way, way, way overpaid.[/quote]

I understand the fact that the contract he signed was a bit high, no doubt. But they knew he was a free agent after last season, they should have locked him up as they did other players this past year. I just hated the fact they gave all this money out to outside guys and didn't even make a decent offer to lock him up. Our offensive line was one of if not the only bright spot of our team, i just would have thought they would want to keep that together.

Hopefully they wont let guys like Taylor and Campbell hit the FA or restricted FA market.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=LaRon + Sean = Hell 4 U;378698]He is doing damn good in Buffalo and his opening pretty big holes for Lynch[/quote]

Yeah, for $55 million, he better be.

If we resigned him for more than Buffalo, we'd all be whining about overpaying. For once, we let someone else overpay. :)

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=#56fanatic;378820][B]I understand the fact that the contract he signed was a bit high, no doubt[/B]. But they knew he was a free agent after last season, they should have locked him up as they did other players this past year. I just hated the fact they gave all this money out to outside guys and didn't even make a decent offer to lock him up. Our offensive line was one of if not the only bright spot of our team, i just would have thought they would want to keep that together.

Hopefully they wont let guys like Taylor and Campbell hit the FA or restricted FA market.[/quote]

A bit high?

They did try to sign him before he hit the market, he choose to test the free agent waters and it definitely worked out for him. I really don't fault him or the Skins. Dockery got his money, and the Skins wisely choose to not match that insane contract.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote]I really don't fault him or the Skins. Dockery got his money, and the Skins wisely choose to not match that insane contract.[/quote]
Exactly. I really wanted to keep him, but when I heard the numbers my jaw dropped. Smart move by the front office.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=Mattyk72;378825]A bit high?

They did try to sign him before he hit the market, he choose to test the free agent waters and it definitely worked out for him. I really don't fault him or the Skins. Dockery got his money, and the Skins wisely choose to not match that insane contract.[/quote]


the "bit high" was sarcastic. It was a ton high. I thought they would have tried to make an offer the year before his contract ran out. I can't blame Dockery at all for signing that deal, he would have been foolish not to. I just look at the alternative contracts we through out to people that have not done squat since joining our team, and can't use the "sensable spending" as an excuse.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=#56fanatic;378834]I just look at the alternative contracts we through out to people that have not done squat since joining our team, and can't use the "sensable spending" as an excuse.[/quote]

So what you are saying is because we made bad decisions in the past, then that is a good reason to make bad decisions in the future?

Granted I would have felt better about overpaying a little bit in order to keep cohesion if we didn't have a history of doing so with guys like Lloyd, Brunell, Arch, etc. but because of bad moves like those, the effects became cumulative.

Management had to change thier philosophy at some point because the old way clearly was not working, unfortunately Dockery was the first one in line...now that they've made the first step, I just hope the common sense trend continues and it doesn't become a sacrifice made in vain.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

I've seen about 4 or 5 Bills games this year. Dockery is decent, but he's no Steve Hutchinson. Though his contract seems to say he is.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=SmootSmack;378863]I've seen about 4 or 5 Bills games this year. Dockery is decent, but he's no Steve Hutchinson. Though his contract seems to say he is.[/quote]We could have drafted Hutchinson. I watched the Skins selection with a friend, saying that adding a dominant guard next to Samuels might be like resurrecting the old Hogs. Marty opted for Rod Gardner :doh:

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=squrrelco3;378837]So what you are saying is because we made bad decisions in the past, then that is a good reason to make bad decisions in the future?

Granted I would have felt better about overpaying a little bit in order to keep cohesion if we didn't have a history of doing so with guys like Lloyd, Brunell, Arch, etc. but because of bad moves like those, the effects became cumulative.

Management had to change thier philosophy at some point because the old way clearly was not working, unfortunately Dockery was the first one in line...now that they've made the first step, I just hope the common sense trend continues and it doesn't become a sacrifice made in vain.[/quote]


I dont know how else to say it, this organization overpays for players from OUTSIDE the redskins locker room. It would have been nice to see them step up and offer a respectable contract to Dockery the year prior to him becomming a free agent. They didn't. they let him test FA market knowing he was going to get offers. Granted, I am sure they didn't he would get that kind of offer, but still the one they offered him was insulting to say the least. They choose to overpay $30+ million to guys from outside the organization. Randel El, come on. he is over paid for his production, Lloyd really no need to even discuss that one, nor the Arch deal. That is $30+ million in guys that quite frankly dont or are not living up to the money. Had we offered something remotely respectable to Dockery he could possibly be here and we wouldn't have to worry about overpaying another FA guard next year, or having to draft a position we wouldn't have needed. It will end up costing us more in a year or two than what is would have had he been signed. Kendall is getting old, he's 33?? We are going to eat the 7 or 8 million on Lloyds deal, eating the however many millions on the arch deal, and to me the money they gave Randel el is too much. He should be getting TO or a top flight receiver #'s for what he is being paid to be a #2 receiver.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

56, if you want to argue that we have historically overpaid for free agents then I don't think anyone would disagree with you. But that has nothing to do with Dockery, who garnered a market deal far in excess of what he was worth. Kudos to the Skins for having the fortitude and forsight to balk on that deal, even though they wanted to keep the player.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=djnemo65;378910]56, if you want to argue that we have historically overpaid for free agents then I don't think anyone would disagree with you. But that has nothing to do with Dockery, who garnered a market deal far in excess of what he was worth. Kudos to the Skins for having the fortitude and forsight to balk on that deal, even though they wanted to keep the player.[/quote]


i do agree, no way I would have paid him that amount of money. I just dont think I should have come down to him hitting the FA market.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[quote=#56fanatic;378912]i do agree, no way I would have paid him that amount of money. I just dont think I should have come down to him hitting the FA market.[/quote]I agree with 56fanatic - had we done the right thing and given Doc an extension when he had a year left on his contract, we would have saved a ton of money and kept a core guy just entering his prime. We just did exactly that with Cooley's extension, so I hope we continue the trend with Taylor and others that we hope to retain. The only time we should allow a solid core player get to free agency again is if we have no intention of keeping him.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;378984]I agree with 56fanatic - had we done the right thing and given Doc an extension when he had a year left on his contract, we would have saved a ton of money and kept a core guy just entering his prime. We just did exactly that with Cooley's extension, so I hope we continue the trend with Taylor and others that we hope to retain. The only time we should allow a solid core player get to free agency again is if we have no intention of keeping him.[/QUOTE]

In hindsight, it might have been a good idea to lock him up a year before his contract was up. However, he was always the weak link on our line IMO and I wasn't sure in 2005 if he deserved an extension. It certainly would have been good to have locked up Pierce before his contract expired.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;378820]I understand the fact that the contract he signed was a bit high, no doubt. But they knew he was a free agent after last season, they should have locked him up as they did other players this past year. I just hated the fact they gave all this money out to outside guys and didn't even make a decent offer to lock him up. Our offensive line was one of if not the only bright spot of our team, i just would have thought they would want to keep that together.

Hopefully they wont let guys like Taylor and Campbell hit the FA or restricted FA market.[/QUOTE]

I would be pissed if they let Taylor or Campbell think about FA they are a must to sign.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;378866]We could have drafted Hutchinson. I watched the Skins selection with a friend, saying that adding a dominant guard next to Samuels might be like resurrecting the old Hogs. Marty opted for Rod Gardner :doh:[/QUOTE]

Interesting. I don't remember that. All you ever heard was Rod Gardner or Santana Moss.

Re: Derrick Dockery:
 

Didn't the Brandon Lloyd saga teach us what happens when we give players contract extensions prematurely? Sorry, you just can't keep every free agent. The league's most consistently excellent teams -- NE, Pit, Baltimore, Indy -- sure don't.