Ramsey
 

Just wondering what the overall thought of Ramsey was today?

21/34, 164yrds, 1 INT (right through Cartwrights hands).

I thought he played ok, not great. He did what was asked I think, I just wish we would have asked him to do more. Made some good throws, some bad throws... really hard to get a gauge on him because of the offense we were running, but just wondering what peopels thoughts were.

I thought he looked fine. I wish he would've been able to throw downfield more. He would've thrown a pick or two, but he also would have gotten us into the endzone.

I think he played well (62% ain't bad). He threw downfield a few times, but you could tell that the timing just wasn't there yet. Those wide receiver screens have always scared the buhjeebees out of me.

I think the Int was crap. Rock finally gets a chance and he botches it.

I thought he played relatively well for someone who just had his first week of real work with the first unit offense.

I don't think Gibbs trusts him just yet, and that's why we saw a pretty conservative attack. A game like today will help him build up that trust with Gibbs though, he played smart and played within the system. He was a bit rusty though, had a couple of deep overthrows. He did what he was asked for the most part, but he didn't make the big plays when he had the chance, rare as it was.

He played alright, he was more consistant than Brunnell that is for sure. I think the play calling for Ramsey was exactly what he needed...short passes to get his confidence up and the occasional shot downfield. At least we know Ramsey can get the ball downfield..but he's going to have to actually be accurate. Overall...what we needed was an increase in offense and we didn't have it today.....actually a decrease in points...

gibbs needs to insert a shotgun formation into the offense, it would benefit ramsey. overall ramsey played pretty well.

I thought he did a good job in a hostile environment and especially with Portis unable to get anything going today

I thought he did fine. It was the playcalling and game plan that stunk. It sent a clear message that they don't have confidence in Ramsey.

I think Gibbs needs to completely rethink his offensive strategy. The season is over, so why not open up the game a lot? His QB has the arm to go long, why are we calling such a conservative and predictable game? It's not like we're in the hunt for the playoffs!

I just can't believe we have yet to score 20 offensive points. Something is very, very wrong with the offensive strategy!

The players and their execution aren't completely blameless either.

But when you insist on fielding only 2 wideouts and rarely go downfield, you will lose in today's NFL.

overall I thought ramsey played ok,not great by any means,but definetly better than brunell,but the throws he made downfield over 10 yds were terrible,they looked like brunell,which is probably why gibbs was hesitant to throw downfield more than he did,if ramsey could have just completed 1 of those maybe gibbs would have called for more of them.I think he only threw about 3 downfield but they werent close,still I wish we would have tried more of them

[QUOTE=wolfeskins]gibbs needs to insert a shotgun formation into the offense, it would benefit ramsey. overall ramsey played pretty well.[/QUOTE]

He did that very briefly years ago...but his offenses for the most part have had no shot gun.

was it just me or did ramsey look a little flustered in the pocket the last quarter of the game? he kept hunkering down as if someone was about to hit him but the pass rush wasn't really that close. or maybe its just me. it was nice to see a qb with some accuracy atleast most of the time though, if only our receivers could actually hold onto the ball it would have been a far different game imo.

Ramsey
 

He played about as well as anyone could expect him to. I personally thought that he had a very respectable game also considering the fact that many of his receivers dropped balls, and his offensive lineman had numerous penalties in precarious situations where the Redskins were seemingly driving for Touchdowns. I think there are numerous positives that we can take from this game including the fact that we played extremely well despite a few penalities/ mishaps that kept us in the game up until we lost our concentration in the fourth quarter. I think that if we get all gears on the same functioning level we will have a shot to do very well in the remainder of our games. We are not a team that has been taken out of the game and blown out (crossing my fingers, of course), on the contrary we are very competitive, and I have confidence in this team and its abilities. Also consider the fact that we could have very easily have won many of the games that we were in up to the very last few minutes. Have faith, BELIEVE.

He played worse than I expected him to play. He completed exactly zero long passes and he produced exactoy zero TDs.

When he had men open downfield behind the last defender, he overthrew them EVERY time. I counted three of these plays; I'm not going to play back the tapes of the game to see if I mssed any.

Despite the assertions of his legion of fans on The Warpath, Patric Ramsey is - right now - a substantially sub-par QB in the NFL. That is not to say that he will not get better; he will. But as of today, he is not OK, and he's not average. He is way below average.

I stronly disagree SC, even though he didn't hit the few deep attempts he had, he did exactly what this offense asked him to do today. Be efficient and not make mistakes. He also did a great job at dropping back and getting rid of the ball quickly, something we really haven't seen from him very often.

There were at least 5-6 very catchable balls that were dropped, he could have easily been 27 of 34 had guys like Gardner been able to hang on to the ball.

To me, he played better than I expected. 1 sack, 1 garbage time INT, and he completed 62% of this throws despite the receivers best attempts to not catch the ball.

But like I've said before, the problems we have on offense are much deeper than at QB.

playcalling is one of those problems and then execution as well

You know... I have to completely disagree with the curmudgeon...

Ramsey might be just an average QB in the NFL... but "substantially sub=par"?? Let's recap last 2 years where he played under Steve (every one blasts me because they don't REALLY know football) Spurrier's system... his numbers..

296-564, 3705 yds, 23 TDs, 17 INTS, 53 passes of 20yds+ .... and 48 SACKS!

Now... either Spurrier wasn't galastically stupid like everyone says or Ramsey is at LEAST and average NFL quarterback. I realize its been said before on this site a million times... but honestly, if you look back through NFL history at the best QBS of all-time... their numbers through 564 passes would be below these numbers. And again let me reiterrate that these are "Spurrier-coached" numbers which means he was getting beat up pretty regularly because of our "sub-par" offensive line... enough to make ANY young QB gun-shy.

As far as today goes... he was VERY accurate on the short passes (watching him was like watching Joe Montana after having to sit through Brunell's ducks, even on short routes), he just has to get comfortable enough to where he doesnt feel like he has to force a ball in deep... he needs just a little more loft on those and let the reciever run under them... thats game-speed rust if u ask me... 53 passes over 20 yards the past 2 seasons proves that...

i agree man ramsey is good. he's been in 2 systems now including one that might not have been very traditional as far as the nfl goes. but we're in a much worse position now than we were with spurrier offensively. spurrier had some loser as DC and i still think he'd do fine in the NFL... i guess thats off-topic...

the skins will not ever be decent unless we use who we gots. ramsey is a plenty good qb

Here is when you willknow that Patrick Ramsey is nor sub-par. You won't have to resort to yardage stats to justify his existence in the NFL.

ASk yourself this question: What is the team's won/loss record when he starts?

Now that losing record - and I guarantee you it is a losing record without going to look it up - is certainly not all his fault. But above average QBs can win some games that the rest of the team tries ot give away.

Really good QBs are ones that are feared around the league by defenive coordinators - not because of their yardage stats - because they win games by taking them over. Is Ramsey there yet?

Then there are the great QBs...

When you stop having to refer to Ramsey's stats and as a way to rub salve on your hurt feelings about the Redskins losing another game, that's when he will REALLY be a good QB. Until then, keep reveling in the stats as the losses pile up.

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Here is when you willknow that Patrick Ramsey is nor sub-par. You won't have to resort to yardage stats to justify his existence in the NFL.

ASk yourself this question: What is the team's won/loss record when he starts?

Now that losing record - and I guarantee you it is a losing record without going to look it up - is certainly not all his fault. But above average QBs can win some games that the rest of the team tries ot give away.

Really good QBs are ones that are feared around the league by defenive coordinators - not because of their yardage stats - because they win games by taking them over. Is Ramsey there yet?

Then there are the great QBs...

When you stop having to refer to Ramsey's stats and as a way to rub salve on your hurt feelings about the Redskins losing another game, that's when he will REALLY be a good QB. Until then, keep reveling in the stats as the losses pile up.[/QUOTE]

It's late so I'm probably reading this wrong but are you essentially saying that Craig Krenzel at 3-0 (going into this weekend) is a good QB, better even than Ramsey? Who would you rather have?

No, I do not think Krenzel is any good.

The win over the Titans is an example of why. Thje offense generated all of 3 points. Krenzel had about 100 yards passing and a QB rating of 20 or so. The defense scored a TD on an interception return by a defensive lineman the special teams ascored a TD on a punt return. That gave the Bears 17 points and forced a tie and sent the gaem to OT.

In OT, the defense won the game with a safety.

That does not make Krenzel the hero or the guy who "won the game" I'd take Ramsey with his right arm in a sling before I'd take Krenzel.

he looked better than last year as far as improving on his weaknesses, i think he should have been asked to do more than 4,000 hitches though...

it sucks that spurrier was able to put up 20 points fairly easily (compared to this year's struggles) with a lot less talent...

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]No, I do not think Krenzel is any good.

The win over the Titans is an example of why. Thje offense generated all of 3 points. Krenzel had about 100 yards passing and a QB rating of 20 or so. The defense scored a TD on an interception return by a defensive lineman the special teams ascored a TD on a punt return. That gave the Bears 17 points and forced a tie and sent the gaem to OT.

In OT, the defense won the game with a safety.

That does not make Krenzel the hero or the guy who "won the game" I'd take Ramsey with his right arm in a sling before I'd take Krenzel.[/QUOTE]
So what's your argument then? When someone brings up Ramsey's stats, you dismiss them and say it's the won-loss record that matters. Then when Krenzel is brought up, you dismiss his won-loss record.

I think we need to consider both the stats and the wins. The basic argument is Ramsey has put up some decent stats for a young QB. True he doesn't have the wins that you'd like to see, but as we can see from Krenzel, the team around you plays a big part in that.

Matty:

My point is that yardage stats by themselves are shallow and often misleading. Yesterday, the leading passer in the NFL in terms of yardage was Aaron Brooks; he lost. The second leading passer was Shaun King; he lost. the third highest was Marc Bulger; he lost.

QBs MAY accumulate gaudy stats by being in games where they have to throw a lot just to stay in the game. QBs can also accumulate gaudy stats by being in a "pass-happy offense" such as the one that Ramsey played in with Spurrier.

Ramsey is the best QB on the Redskins' roster at the moment and certainly his future is brighter than the other two guys. But, it is folly to say that he is a competent or even a quality QB as of the moment because he isn't. He has the physical tools to turn into one, but he isn't one yet. And if he does not improve a whole lot in the remaining games this year, then the Skins will go on another QB hunt in the off-season and we know how that story ends...

This Redskin team is much further away from being a contending team than a single player or two. Of the 22 starting positions, I think 8 are seriously in need of upgrading. I know that a lot of people here think that 20 of the present 22 starters will go to the Hall of Fame - along with several guys on the practice squad - but that is just not the case.

You are absolutely right; the team around Ramsey is part of the reason that he has put up a losing record so far in his career. But to absolve Ramsey from blame and to say that he "played well" yesterday is silly. He played an entire game and the Redskins scored ZERO touchdowns. Was that all his fault? Of course not. But as I said in another post, really good QBs can ovecome some of the limitations of the players around them and score points. Ramsey isn't there yet. I sure hope he does get there sometime in the next couple of months because if he doesn't there will be another expensive off-season QB acquisition in the wings...

I thought he played well.

At first I complained about the play calling but after I had time to sleep on it I got the feeling that Gibbs is being patient with Ramsey and really working on getting his confidence back up. Working on the fundamentals , not making Ramsey take the entire game upon his shoulders. Getting the short passes down and slowly working on the middle and finally the long. (Something like that anyway.)

Handling him with kid gloves so to speak.

Did anyone else get that impression?

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]I know that a lot of people here think that 20 of the present 22 starters will go to the Hall of Fame - along with several guys on the practice squad - but that is just not the case.[/QUOTE]

You seem to like saying this a lot. I don't know if it's just hyperbole on your part or if you truly believe that. If so, you're not giving other people on this board much credit. If someone says Ramsey should be our starter, McCants should be on the field more often and Betts should get some more carries they're not saying these guys are HOFers. We're just saying these are some of the guys we have on our team who we feel can help us win and have the potential to help us win for years to come

We have two QBs that give us one extreme over the other. We have Ramsey who overthrows (but what an arm though) his receivers by a ton and Brunell, who can't reach his receivers with the long ball. We need to meet in the middle somewhere.

I have to agree with sportscurmudgeon, the Ramsey led offense scored 6 points. Lets not kid ourselves and say Ramsey is doing well. It is the lowest point total all year. While I think Ramsey is the way to go at this point in the season, he did not look smooth or confidant.

Smootsmack and Mattyk72 - It is funny that you are comparing Ramsey (3rd yea playerr /1st round pick) to a ROOKIE, 3rd string, fifth round pick. I guess that is the way Ramsey is playing. Like a rookie 5th round pick.

because he is certainly not playing like Brett Farve, P. Manning, Vick, Brees, Culpepper. Tom Brady, Brian Griese, Trent Green or Marc Bulger.

Even rookie Ben Roethlesberger is playing a million times better. I suprised to hear a loyal Ramsey fan on this websight say right now they would rather have Ramsey than Ben Roethlesberger. Really?
rookie

[QUOTE=smootsmack]You seem to like saying this a lot. I don't know if it's just hyperbole on your part or if you truly believe that. If so, you're not giving other people on this board much credit. If someone says Ramsey should be our starter, McCants should be on the field more often and Betts should get some more carries they're not saying these guys are HOFers. We're just saying these are some of the guys we have on our team who we feel can help us win and have the potential to help us win for years to come[/QUOTE]

Smootsmack
You really have a short memory. I remember reading some pretty crazy posts about Ramsey and how incredibly talented our roster is. Now I am hearing the beep beep sound of some folks backing up.

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Smootsmack
You really have a short memory. I remember reading some pretty crazy posts about Ramsey and how incredibly talented our roster is. Now I am hearing the beep beep sound of some folks backing up.[/QUOTE]

Talented is one thing, HOF is another. I'm probably just misinterpreting what SC is writing. But I mean I think Ramsey is talented, but he's raw and he needs to play to get better. And I think a lot of people here think the same thing.

I agree that Ramsey is a talented QB who needs work.

I saw some things from him yesterday that were encouraging to me. He got rid of the ball quickly and for the most part he was pretty accurate. He's had very little work in this offense and considering how badly he was struggling in the preseason, I thought yesterday's performance showed that he may be taking some steps in the right direction.

Under the circumstances with a hostile and very loud crowd, I thought he kept his cool and looked like a QB that Gibbs can work with and continue to develop.

[QUOTE=Defensewins]because he is certainly not playing like Brett Farve, P. Manning, Vick, Brees, Culpepper. Tom Brady, Brian Griese, Trent Green or Marc Bulger.

Even rookie Ben Roethlesberger is playing a million times better. I suprised to hear a loyal Ramsey fan on this websight say right now they would rather have Ramsey than Ben Roethlesberger. Really?
rookie[/QUOTE]
ramsey wasn't the #1 pick, he was #32, he's had two completely different systems and only started 17 games... in three years most of those other guys played in one system... brees was awful last year, but after being in the system for 3 years (and getting more weapons) he's doing much better... griese wasn't anything special last year, and vick missed 12 games and got his coach fired (not his fault)...

and honestly, if ramsey was put in the middle of the steelers talent, he'd be doing much better right now, their WRs and TEs are better than ours and they can win short yardage nearly every single time... either way, ben played like crap yesterday (and lost 54 yards to sacks), but other playmakers stepped up and covered for him (and they have 2-4 other playmakers on that O)... only CP is capable of doing that here... and our Oline isn't helping them as much as anyone would like...

[QUOTE=That Guy]ramsey wasn't the #1 pick, he was #32, he's had two completely different systems and only started 17 games... in three years most of those other guys played in one system... brees was awful last year, but after being in the system for 3 years (and getting more weapons) he's doing much better... griese wasn't anything special last year, and vick missed 12 games and got his coach fired (not his fault)...

and honestly, if ramsey was put in the middle of the steelers talent, he'd be doing much better right now, their WRs and TEs are better than ours and they can win short yardage nearly every single time... either way, ben played like crap yesterday (and lost 54 yards to sacks), but other playmakers stepped up and covered for him (and they have 2-4 other playmakers on that O)... only CP is capable of doing that here... and our Oline isn't helping them as much as anyone would like...[/QUOTE]

I agree

Oh Jesus, I'm sensing a a call for another roster overhaul.

QB, WR, etc. When are we finally going to work with what we have and make a few small moves and try to bring consistency?

SC, since you apparently do not like Ramsey, our recieving corps, and have identified 8 or so positions that need to be overhauled, what exactly is your plan to improve our roster? You criticize Snyder for his free agency binges, but it seems like that is exactly what you are calling for.

I, for one, am not completly sold on ben hambooger yet. seems like just yesterday when the steelers had a superstar who went by the name "SLASH".
he was the greatest thing, defenses didn't know what to do, he could leap tall buildings in a single bound, he was KORDELL STEWART. he sucked then and he sucks now. Ben looks good now but lets see if he still looks good in 2 or 3 years.
I'll take patrick over ben. ben plays for a better team but ramsey is a better qb.

I have to wait and see how Roethlisberger does throughout the next 16 games. Sometimes, a new QB comes in and he looks great until defenses figure him out and pound him.

But, he looks like the real deal right now; he's got size, speed, an arm, accuracy, and just about everything a QB stud needs.

yeah, i'm not taking anything away from roeth, but i watched him yesterday, and he is NOT the reason they beat the bengals... they can run duce and bettis all day against just about anyone, thats the really scary part of that team... having a good passing game on top of that though? ouch...

still, they'll be down a starting WR when we play them... I'll take whatever i can get.

Ben has played very well this year especially for a rookie, but you guys hit the nail on the head. Look at what he's got around him, a great line, two starter quality RB's, quality WR's and an established system and coaching staff.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Ben has played very well this year especially for a rookie, but you guys hit the nail on the head. Look at what he's got around him, a great line, two starter quality RB's, quality WR's and an established system and coaching staff.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, a coaching staff that has been there for more than [I]10 years[/I]. What Ben has is a foundation around him and he's making the most out of it. Ramsey is on his 2nd coaching staff in 3 years. If we can just try to be a little more patient maybe we can build something similar here. Continuity is huge in this league. Look at the Patriots for example, shoot look at the freaking Eagles. McNabb has been in the same system for about 4 years now. Look how much he has evolved as a QB.

Patience my friends, patience.

I thought Ramsey played really well. Granted he wasn't asked to do much, but he didn't force anything or make too many mistakes. He also looked calm in the pocket. While he did overthrow on a couple plays, there were also a few passes where he put the ball in a great spot where only his guy could get it. I remember thinking to myself - "If Brunnell had made that pass it would have been picked for sure."

The playcalling didn't allow him to throw downfield often, but it's hard to blame Gibbs for keeping a short leash. It's his first start of the season and he's playing in Philly against the best team in the NFC. I mean what woulda happened if he came out firing and threw 4 picks? Not exactly a confidence booster for him or the team. Not to mention I'd probably be reading a bunch of "Brees or Kitna" threads right now.

I think as Ramsey becomes more comfortable and Gibbs gains confidence in him he'll start letting him throw deep more often. Right now PR has to focus on the basics and not making mistakes, which he did well this week. In fact this is the exact type of game I thought we'd be seeing from Brunell this year.

smootsmack:

Hall of Fame destiny for 20 starters is hyperbole. Mea culpa


But we have had folks here use the word "great" with Sultan McCullogh. I don't think so.

We have folks who say our wide receivers are in the top 3 or 5 in the league - - except they don't seem to score. And that is indeed the objective of playing offense in the NFL.

We have a "beast" at safety who is an "intimidator". Those aren't my words; those are the accolades of others. I have yet to see any opposing offensive player cower in fear at the line of scrimmage. And I've seen our intimidating beast chase as many opponents into the end zone as I've seen him do much of anything else.

Patrick Ramsey's QB stats compare favorably with Brett Farve and Peyton Manning - with the clear implication that he is going to be that good. I hope so. But I doubt it.

Last year's defensive line was just fine, remember? Some folks here thought that Darryl Russell could be an All-Pro. Not happening any time soon.

Remember how the speed of Trung Canidate was going to befuddle opposing defensive coordinators?

How about Rock Cartwright as the bruising power runner that can always get you the short yardage you need.

The fact is that people here fall in love with players because they are wearing Redskin uniforms. That's fine. But the reality is that a lot of these guys are really pretty mediocre and they're not great and they're not warriors and they're not beasts and they're not intimidating. In fact, on their off days they are striving to perform at a barely acceptable level.

Yes, I used hyperbole. But it is not significantly worse than the tons of praise heaped on parts of this team that really need to be upgraded a whole lot.