One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

You can write this off as one man's opinion - - or even as some guy who just loves to bash Danny Boy Snyder although I have no evidence that he does that routinely.

However, his logic says that the Skins would be better served worrying about signing other potential free agents.

I happen to agree that while WR is hardly an area of great strength on this team, there are far more important segments of the team that need improving before worrying about WR.

Worth reading - - and of course reacting to...


[url=http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3792_Santonio_to_%27Skins%3F_Just_say_no%2C_Dan_Snyder.html]Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Santonio to 'Skins? Just say no, Dan Snyder[/url]

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

I think Holmes is an excellent WR...but I don't believe WR should be a priority of ours, and I'm reluctant to bring in a guy one bad move away from a lengthy suspension.

Shouldn't be our first priority in my opinion

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

Good thing Snyder isn't calling the shots.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

I don't want him for plenty of reasons:

We don't have our long term quarterback in place.

We already have a dependable #1 in Santana Moss, who performed fine last year amidst qb disruption, and who has already said he wants to come back.

We definitely have other areas of need that should be a higher priority, like offensive/defensive line.

We need to let our guys at wr like Hank, Paul, Kelly, etc. step up and have the opportunity to prove themselves.

And getting a big play #1 wideout should be a priority once we have our qb of the future in place. Let Moss stay here for another couple seasons, and then look at upgrading.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

Will Hill and Santonio could bring an Amsterdam vibe to the locker room.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;812870]I think Holmes is an excellent WR...but I don't believe WR should be a priority of ours, and I'm reluctant to bring in a guy one bad move away from a lengthy suspension.

Shouldn't be our first priority in my opinion[/quote]

Agreed. One bad move away from a lengthy suspension, and he's going to cost a lot. I personally don't think he's an excellent WR. Above average for sure though. I clipped this from an article on ESPN Insider about the 10 riskiest FA's:

[B]7. WR [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9611"]Santonio Holmes[/URL][/B]

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9611"][IMG]http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nfl/players/full/9611.png&w=65&h=90&scale=crop&background=0xcccccc&transparent=false[/IMG][/URL][B][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9611"]Santonio Holmes[/URL][/B]

[B][I]#10 WR
New York Jets[/I][/B]

[I]2010 STATS[/I]
[LIST][*][I]Rec52[/I][*][I]Yds746[/I][*][I]TD6[/I][*][I]Avg14.3[/I][*][I]Long52[/I][*][I]YAC229[/I][/LIST]

[I]Many focus on Holmes' off-field issues (detailed [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=6317245"]here[/URL]), but his vertical receiving inconsistency could be just as much of a concern.[/I]
[I]He is thought to be an elite downfield threat, but his 10.3 vertical YPA and 11.3 stretch vertical YPA ranked 46th and 50th, respectively, last season. This isn't the first time his ranking here has been subpar, as his 9.2 vertical YPA in 2008 ranked 56th in the league.[/I]

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

He's certainly a skilled WR who knows how to produce despite having his either a subpar QB or a QB who was sacked a lot.

But he's a better fit on a team more immune to his troubles than we are. We have too many impressionable young guys to consider Holmes.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

Yea no lets go rice, moss, or a very low teir wide reciever that may surprise (AA type)

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

I don't want Holmes, look at his numbers and it'll show u that he's just avg. He's a little better than moss but not much

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

Here we go. Is there any real evidence that we are targeting all of the Jets WR? I truly believe that if we resign Moss and build on what is in the building we are good to go this year at WR.

Like others have said, work on these lines in FA don't worry about the flashy guy. We need grit and grime not splash and dash.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;812921]Here we go. Is there any real evidence that we are targeting all of the Jets WR? I truly believe that if we resign Moss and build on what is in the building we are good to go this year at WR.

Like others have said, work on these lines in FA don't worry about the flashy guy. We need grit and grime not splash and dash.[/quote]

Well, there's no concrete evidence a la Allen or Shanahan saying so, but multiple sources have reported that he's at or near the top of our wish list.

I know Santana is older than Holmes, but he's also been here a long time, would come much cheaper, and is arguably just flat our better than Santonio.

I'd much rather give Santana a 3 year deal than give Holmes a 5 or 6 year deal at a significantly higher premium.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

I have heard all of the reports, but at the same time this new regime is pretty tight on the information that comes out. Last year we were connected to alot of the top guys to only find out later that we were never even at the bargaining table.

Also why are all of the article pertaining to the Redskins still going with the Ol' Dan Snyder line? Snyder needs to stay away from player X... Have so many in the media really not checked their stories before sending them to print? There are new cats in charge here.... rant over...

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=GMScud;812928]Well, there's no concrete evidence a la Allen or Shanahan saying so, but multiple sources have reported that he's at or near the top of our wish list.

I know Santana is older than Holmes, but he's also been here a long time, would come much cheaper, and is arguably just flat our better than Santonio.

I'd much rather give Santana a 3 year deal than give Holmes a 5 or 6 year deal at a significantly higher premium.[/quote]

Age 33 is the wall that very few WRs ever climb. Ochocinco is about to be cut by the Bengals, and he's 33. A 3 year contract is nuttery. Not to mention that Holmes has usually been more efficient than Moss even with a poor QB or poor OL.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;812934]Age 33 is the wall that very few WRs ever climb. Ochocinco is about to be cut by the Bengals, and he's 33. A 3 year contract is nuttery. Not to mention that Holmes has usually been more efficient than Moss even with a poor QB or poor OL.[/quote]

Santana turned 32 a month ago. I'm not saying we give him some huge 3 year deal, but a reasonable 3 year contract with some backloaded money is most likely what Santana will get on the open market. Just my speculation.

Signing a guy in Moss who just turned 32 a month ago who's coming off an 1100+ yard 93 catch season (in a bad offense with no consistent QB play) to a 3 year deal certainly isn't "nuttery." The numbers just have to be right. He's no long-term answer, but it's more reasonable than inking a significantly larger deal for a WR in Holmes who really won't be any better than Moss with our QB situation over the next 2 or so seasons and will bring significant character issues to boot.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

The one thing Holmes has going for him is that he's clutch. But is he consistent? That's an entirely different story. And I don't think it's a good idea to sign a guy to a big money contract when he's one strike away from being suspended big time.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

we should look at 2nd tier WRs. moss wants back. the jets are making holmes priority #1... so we should scoop edwards out instead, that way we can still get a guy that can't stay off the police blotter, but at a much friendlier price. Plax could be a steal too :P

honestly, between moss AA cooley and hankerson/fred davis/kelly/austin/etc we can do alright. If we don't have a DL worth two dams or we're missing a starting CB, we won't be winning much. we need at least one BIG upgrade on the OL too, preferably so we ditch rabach.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

I'm not saying we need Holms, but we do need a #1 WR. Some would say we drafted one, and I would agree and "hope" one works out, but great teams don't go into the season with hope. They go into the season with a plan.

1st- I'd contact whatever OL FA's that are available.
2nd- I'd contact FA CB's in case we let Rogers go.
3rd- I'd look to any other defensive players that could help the team.
4rth- I'd think about picking up a UFDA QB.

I know, I know my #4 is a bold statement. But if Grossman is resigned then the team won't be too horrid even if I let Beck start. So I think I'd bring in a young Rookie and try them out. If they didn't work out then next year we still can draft a QB, either trade up or look to FA.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

Ooops, lol, I failed to throw in the fact I'd still contact a WR. Who is out there that are #1's? I think the Junkies mentioned Braylon Edwards, Holmes, and Sidney Rice. They liked the idea of Rice because he's the youngest of the bunch and most physical.

Basically I'd contact the agents of all positions OL, WR, CB, and whatever other defensive positions needed. Its easier to contact the agents and say "hey we are interested come talk to us", most agents know if they can't get a good price out of us they can drive up the cost to other teams by using the Redskins name. So I'm pretty sure if any agents are contacted then players will be holding out until Friday or atleast untill after they talk with the Skins to see what the Skins will pay for them to use against their current team or other interested teams.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=That Guy;812952]we should look at 2nd tier WRs. moss wants back. the jets are making holmes priority #1... so we should scoop edwards out instead, that way we can still get a guy that can't stay off the police blotter, but at a much friendlier price. Plax could be a steal too :P

honestly, between moss AA cooley and hankerson/fred davis/kelly/austin/etc we can do alright. If we don't have a DL worth two dams or we're missing a starting CB, we won't be winning much. we need at least one BIG upgrade on the OL too, preferably so we ditch rabach.[/quote]

I agree with you here except with Kelly. It's one thing to think "hey we already have a player on the team who can contribute" it's another to think he will actually play when he has not been able to stay healthy since drafted. I go back to my "hope" statement. I'd rather go into the season with Plax, Edwards, Holmes, or Rice and be pleasantly supprised if Kelly stayed healthy and we had two awsome weapons to compliment Moss and AA, or even more weapons if the Rookies pan out then to go into the season thinking.... we have Moss, AA, the Rookies, and hopefully Kelly steps up because if he doesn't step up like in the past we are sitting in a bad spot just like last year with only to decent weapons in Moss and AA.

Speaking of Moss, we could probably get the other Moss cheap also.... imagine the Moss/Moss threat. Say what you will about R.Moss but he's a hard worker and would show the young guys what they need to do to be great. Even if its just for a one year deal. I might even think about T.O. for a 1 yr deal only because he's worth his weight in gold his first yr and he has a great work ethic that our rookies could stand to pick up, then let him go.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

I keep hearing Santonio from basically one source repeated several times, but I hear Rice and Jones from several sources. Not sure which if any are going to happen.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;812964]I keep hearing Santonio from basically one source repeated several times, but I hear Rice and Jones from several sources. Not sure which if any are going to happen.[/quote]


I know people have issue's with the idea of Plax or R.Moss but if reports are true with R.Moss being in tip top shape and if Plax is ready to reprove himself then they would be cheap pick ups and KS's system is a pass happy system which should make them happy to want to come here over other teams who might be more run oriented.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

I have been saying since the word was out we were looking at Holmes that we should stay away from him. He and Moss seem to be the exact same players. Yes Holmes is younger, but Moss has been a great Redskins, had the most productive year of his career last year, and will come a whole hell of a lot cheaper than Holmes. I just dont see where we need to bring him in. Why not let our younger guys play? Armstrong had a decent year. Kelly (often injured) has had a ton of time to heal and learn and if he is healthy, I see him as a HUGE contributer. Terrence Austin is another guy that can use some playing time. And the two rookies we have, Hankerson being one that can start. We need to develop our younger guys and let them play. Its all about the Oline. If they get this shored up and solid, the QB can git these guys and be very productive. Look at the Pats, Saints. THey have a very pass happy offense and have found some very good quality, and some great receivers by letting them go out and play. We NEVER do that. We dont need another big name receiver, we need good Olineman.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

Because we all know Cold, Hard, football facts win Championships.pfff

We need help everywhere and that includes WR. We haven't a 2 WR threat since the early 90's.

In my opinion the defenses lack luster stats can be attributed to the new system just as much as lack of talent...same for the oline.

The point is when you are hurting in this many areas you need to find as much talent as you can whereever you can find it. I don't see any marquis offensive or defensive lineman nor a quarterback available in free agency. Might as well take a shot where the talent is available. It's not like we are giving up draft picks to sign FA's. It's not your check book either so let em have at it.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;812964]I keep hearing Santonio from basically one source repeated several times, but I hear Rice and Jones from several sources. Not sure which if any are going to happen.[/quote]


Smoot knows what's up. A tweet from another insider below.



[quote]Holmes looks to be a smoke screen and a good one. ALOT of talk involving Rice this evening like pre lockout. Back at it early AM GN.[/quote]

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

I would rather have rice than holmes so I hope the tweet mentioned above pans out! Thank god for being able to talk about actual football again!

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;812870]I think Holmes is an excellent WR...but I don't believe WR should be a priority of ours, and I'm reluctant to bring in a guy one bad move away from a lengthy suspension.

[B]Shouldn't be our first priority in my opinion[/B][/quote]Totally agree. Allen made WR a priority in the draft, and added significant depth at the position. I would be more interested in re-signing Moss to man the slot, and hopefully Malcolm Kelly will finally stay healthy enough to contribute. I prefer to see OL and CB as priorities. I'm also fine if the FO opts to re-sign Rogers for reasonable money.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

I have heard on more than one talk radio program, that "Holmes to the Skins" may be one of those "discussions" that took place under cloak and dagger during the lockout and no one would be surprised if there was not a "handshake" deal in place for when the lockout ended.

Say what you want about Holmes, he made Rothlesberger a star though.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

So for those who don't want Holmes, it looks like these are the reasons:

A) Costly
B) Off-the-field issues
C) Not [I]that[/I] much better than Moss
D) Want to give our young receivers a shot
E) WR is not a priority

Are some of these concerns mitigated if we go for Rice instead?

And for the record, I'm not really that convinced by reason E just because we have a ton of cap space this year and can afford to go after a lot of different players if there are good options available.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=takethecake;813072]So for those who don't want Holmes, it looks like these are the reasons:

A) Costly
B) Off-the-field issues
C) Not [I]that[/I] much better than Moss
D) Want to give our young receivers a shot
E) WR is not a priority

Are some of these concerns mitigated if we go for Rice instead?

And for the record, I'm not really that convinced by reason E just because we have a ton of cap space this year and can afford to go after a lot of different players if there are good options available.[/quote]

Disagree with C.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

we had a good passing offense last year, we dont really NEED a WR (if we sign moss), but having a 4th option (after moss AA cooley) would be great if it's cheap, and we can afford a cheap deal that doesn't work out, hence mentioning plax or the like.

save cash for CB/DL/OL.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=That Guy;813076]we had a good passing offense last year, we dont really NEED a WR (if we sign moss), but having a 4th option (after moss AA cooley) would be great if it's cheap, and we can afford a cheap deal that doesn't work out, hence mentioning plax or the like.

save cash for CB/DL/OL.[/quote]


Yes but now we will have John Beck so we need all the help we can get

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;812996]Smoot knows what's up. A tweet from another insider below.[/quote]

For all I know we're hearing stuff from the same source. I'll say this, the new Redskins have been excellent at smoke screens and misdirections

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;813080]For all I know we're hearing stuff from the same source. I'll say this, the new Redskins have been excellent at smoke screens and misdirections[/quote]

FUnny you mention that because seems like they've done a 180 according to that same insider. Back to Holmes.


[quote]All night I heard about Rice.. this morning in contact with Holmes.[/quote]

I agree 100%. The Skins are brilliant at smoke screens now.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

Someone here at work just told me Holmes too. But someone else here told me Braylon...and I know they're not signing both

If it's Holmes I gotta give props then to JLC for being the first (and for a long time only) one to call it

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;812964]I keep hearing Santonio from basically one source repeated several times, but I hear Rice and Jones from several sources. Not sure which if any are going to happen.[/quote]

Do any of these sources think we'd also resign moss?

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;813090]Do any of these sources think we'd also resign moss?[/quote]

Look at the FA Rumors and Reports thread

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

[quote=GMScud;812936]Santana turned 32 a month ago. I'm not saying we give him some huge 3 year deal, but a reasonable 3 year contract with some backloaded money is most likely what Santana will get on the open market. Just my speculation.

Signing a guy in Moss who just turned 32 a month ago who's coming off an 1100+ yard 93 catch season (in a bad offense with no consistent QB play) to a 3 year deal certainly isn't "nuttery." The numbers just have to be right. He's no long-term answer, but it's more reasonable than inking a significantly larger deal for a WR in Holmes who really won't be any better than Moss with our QB situation over the next 2 or so seasons and will bring significant character issues to boot.[/quote]As if a player's performance when his body is "fresher" makes him immune to the depreciation of his body afterwards.

Moss's stats were precisely inflated because he was one of the few "good" offensive players at the offense's disposal, and thus became the default target. But Moss's game is based on his speed, and that fading away fast. Thus, his days as the de facto #1 are nearly gone.

A 3-year deal for him would have to be like Larry Johnson's: one that is easy to cut him should he not prove effective anymore. It doesn't matter if we sign Holmes or not. Any long-term deal for Moss needs to realistically weigh how much he can contribute to WINS in the future. Usually unless the WR is headed for the HOF, WRs hit their wall at around 33 or 34.

Quite frankly, I'd pass on both. We have little need for short-term(Moss) or mid-term(Holmes) players. We need to focus on getting long-term or "eternal-term" players

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

I really do not want a high priced FA WR. I like the WR's we have drafted and picked up. They are adequate and cheap.
Our issues on offense were O-line and QB related. Lack of pass protection and running game and a QB that can produce consistently on his own.
The only positions I would like our team to consider a high priced FA is at NT, OG, OT or QB. I would also consider one to replace Carlos Rogers, if we lose him to another team. But getting a high profile WR is going right back to the Ceratto (i have never seen a WR I did not want to get) days.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

Santana NEEDs somebody else. Passing was our strength... yea so what.. we still need to get better than mediocre like they said. Strength or not it was mediocre.

We could have used another playmaker last year. And were gonna need one this year down the stretch. What if Santana gets hurt? Whoever wrote that article isnt a fan of ours the slightest.

Re: One man's view of Santonio Holmes and the Skins
 

Holmes just made agreement with jets according to schefter on twitter