CBS - Sportsline Pro Bowl picks
 

[url="http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9096739"]http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9096739[/url]

they have several redskins on there, including mark brunell, santana moss, and jon jansen. They mention Chris Cooley as a runner up at the tight end position, as well as Clinton Portis at the running back position.

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yeah i saw that and that and it made me mad as we don't have COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLEY in there and no defense players. Cooley is listed as FB in the voting so atleast they could stay consistant


Also whats this about Janson getting in, i like that but no RANDY!!!

WHAT ABOUT MY BOY WASHINGTON??

Re: CBS - Sportsline Pro Bowl picks
 

Brunell as a reserve? That's a bit surprising. Although, it isn't exactly a ringing endorsement:
[quote]This is really a down year for NFC quarterbacks, so Hasselbeck takes the start almost by default. The reserves? Somebody has to go.[/quote]

And how does Dunn get the nod over CP? Fine - 80 more yards, but only 3 TDs. Plus, Dunn isn't nearly as good without the ball as CP is (IMO).

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those nfc picks suck. they have too many seattle players and whats the freakin deal with there not being any redskins for defense, they didn't even list any as backups. and dunn edging out portis, no no no :spank:

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I really, really, really like Portis. However, I think it's pretty hard to deny Dunn a spot in the Pro Bowl. While Dunn doesn't score a lot of touchdowns and he gets nice lanes because defenses are scared of letting Vick run outside of the tackles, he is one damn explosive player. Moreover, Dunn plays like he's a lot bigger than he really is; he's about the same size as Santana Moss but he doesn't shy away from defenders.

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I really, really, really like Portis. However, I think it's pretty hard to deny Dunn a spot in the Pro Bowl. While Dunn doesn't score a lot of touchdowns and he gets nice lanes because defenses are scared of letting Vick run outside of the tackles, he is one damn explosive player. Moreover, Dunn plays like he's a lot bigger than he really is; he's about the same size as Santana Moss but he doesn't shy away from defenders.[/QUOTE]

I imagine a lot of his TD opportunities are negated by the fact that Duckett gets the ball more in the red zone. Often times we talk about someone being such a great player that we tend to minimize what they do off the field (charity work, etc.), with Dunn it seems like it's more about what a great person he is and what he's had to overcome that his abilities on the field tend to get overlooked.

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Here's who I should go to the Pro Bowl to represent the NFC:


QB Hasselbeck, Manning, Brunell
FB Cooley
RB Alexander, Barber, Portis/Dunn
WR Smith, Boldin, Moss, Galloway
TE Crumpler, Shockey
OT Jones, Pace, Samuels
OG Hutchinson, Thomas, Allen
C Kreutz, Bentley

DT Coleman, Griffin, Rogers
DE Strahan, Umenyiora, Peppers
OLB Washington, Dansby
ILB Urlacher, Pierce
CB Barber, Hall, Springs
FS Dawkins
SS Wilson

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Is Adrian Wilson REALLY that good?

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i'd take portis over dunn, thomas over somebody and m washington at OLB... its not a very good list...

Re: CBS - Sportsline Pro Bowl picks
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I really, really, really like Portis. However, I think it's pretty hard to deny Dunn a spot in the Pro Bowl. While Dunn doesn't score a lot of touchdowns and he gets nice lanes because defenses are scared of letting Vick run outside of the tackles, he is one damn explosive player. Moreover, Dunn plays like he's a lot bigger than he really is; he's about the same size as Santana Moss but he doesn't shy away from defenders.[/QUOTE]

does portis shy away from defenders? does portis get running lanes because people fear brunell taking off? your points seem to point out why dunn shouldn't get the nod instead...

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Here's who I should go to the Pro Bowl to represent the NFC:


QB Hasselbeck, Manning, Brunell
FB Cooley
RB Alexander, Barber, Portis/Dunn
WR Smith, Boldin, Moss, Galloway
TE Crumpler, Shockey
OT Jones, Pace, Samuels
OG Hutchinson, Thomas, Allen
C Kreutz, Bentley

DT Coleman, Griffin, Rogers
DE Strahan, Umenyiora, Peppers
OLB Washington, Dansby
ILB Urlacher, Pierce
CB Barber, Hall, Springs
FS Dawkins
SS Wilson[/QUOTE]

cooley really isn't a FB, so while he'll probably get in as one, mack strong is the best real nfc FB. griffin missed a lot of time, so his numbers aren't great, and while he has the talent and should have gone last year, this year his production (due to missed games) has come up short... I think the same thing happened to peppers this year too. The pro bowl is about this years production, not natural althletic talent.

Springs has been good, but unfortunately not very flashy (low int count, not 108yard FG returns for TDs etc), and i don't think brunell should go, just cause he's slumped off so horribly after such a good start.

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I really, really, really like Portis. However, I think it's pretty hard to deny Dunn a spot in the Pro Bowl. While Dunn doesn't score a lot of touchdowns and he gets nice lanes because defenses are scared of letting Vick run outside of the tackles, he is one damn explosive player. Moreover, Dunn plays like he's a lot bigger than he really is; he's about the same size as Santana Moss but he doesn't shy away from defenders.[/QUOTE]

So, Dunn gets nice lanes and doesn't score lots of TDs. Sounds like an argument for CP!

Fact is, Duckett gets the TDs [B]because[/B] Dunn is undersized. Don't get me wrong - I like Dunn. He is explosive, but he just doesn't do as much at the position (again, especially on pass plays) as CP does.

Re: CBS - Sportsline Pro Bowl picks
 

[QUOTE=onlydarksets]So, Dunn gets nice lanes and doesn't score lots of TDs. Sounds like an argument for CP!

Fact is, Duckett gets the TDs [B]because[/B] Dunn is undersized. Don't get me wrong - I like Dunn. He is explosive, but he just doesn't do as much at the position (again, especially on pass plays) as CP does.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't denying that Portis is a Pro Bowl-caliber player. I've said repeatedly that he's a great back. I've repeatedly said that he's NOT overrated. I didn't intend for my praise of Dunn to be interpreted as an attack on Portis.

And yes, I did point out that Dunn doesn't get into the endzone a lot and gets nice lanes. If I didn't acknowledge those things I'd be cherry-picking the evidence. I like to think that I acknowledge both the good and bad things about a player, team, coach, etc.

Also, Duckett does get the ball in short-yardage situations because Dunn is undersized. However, that he is able to hold up to the punishment that he endures while being as small as he is is something he should get credit for.

But, the bottom line is that there is no denying that Dunn is a great player. He's racked up 1,247 yards on 242 carries for a 5.2 ypc average and another 200 yards in the air. He's also racked up 10 runs of 20 yards or more. Point blank, the guy is a baller.

Re: CBS - Sportsline Pro Bowl picks
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Here's who I should go to the Pro Bowl to represent the NFC:


QB Hasselbeck, Manning, Brunell
FB Cooley
RB Alexander, Barber, Portis/Dunn
WR Smith, Boldin, Moss, Galloway
TE Crumpler, Shockey
OT Jones, Pace, Samuels
OG Hutchinson, Thomas, Allen
C Kreutz, Bentley

DT Coleman, Griffin, Rogers
DE Strahan, Umenyiora, Peppers
OLB Washington, Dansby
ILB Urlacher, Pierce
CB Barber, Hall, Springs
FS Dawkins
SS Wilson[/QUOTE]


Funny List!!


Are those the backups to the Cowboy Starters on the NFC Pro Bowl!!!:headbange

Re: CBS - Sportsline Pro Bowl picks
 

Sean Taylor???

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I wasn't denying that Portis is a Pro Bowl-caliber player. I've said repeatedly that he's a great back. I've repeatedly said that he's NOT overrated. I didn't intend for my praise of Dunn to be interpreted as an attack on Portis.

And yes, I did point out that Dunn doesn't get into the endzone a lot and gets nice lanes. If I didn't acknowledge those things I'd be cherry-picking the evidence. I like to think that I acknowledge both the good and bad things about a player, team, coach, etc.

Also, Duckett does get the ball in short-yardage situations because Dunn is undersized. However, that he is able to hold up to the punishment that he endures while being as small as he is is something he should get credit for.

But, the bottom line is that there is no denying that Dunn is a great player. He's racked up 1,247 yards on 242 carries for a 5.2 ypc average and another 200 yards in the air. He's also racked up 10 runs of 20 yards or more. Point blank, the guy is a baller.[/QUOTE]

I tried to be careful in my post to focus on the issue - which of two great players with almost identical stats should get the nod. We both know CP and Dunn are great players. I didn't suggest you thought CP sucked, and I said Dunn is a great player (not too clearly, admittedly). This season their numbers are basically identical, except for TDs.

At this point, our analysis differs. I think CP's intangibles (namely blocking and getting open for the screen pass) outweigh Dunn's. Added to the fact he has more TDs than Dunn, I think you have to give him the nod. I appreciate that Dunn does a lot with what he has, but so does Earl Boykins. It doesn't mean he should beat out a Steve Nash for an All Star spot just because he does.

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The most we'll put in the Pro-Bowl is three players. As many as four deserve to go, but I don't think we'll have more than three.

*******************
Portis
Taylor
Moss
*******************

Wow, I didn't realize I picked three from the "U"!

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Washington really deserves it, too, but it doesn't seem like he's getting a whole lot of respect this year in the voting.

Re: CBS - Sportsline Pro Bowl picks
 

[QUOTE=b_cadvantag]Funny List!!


Are those the backups to the Cowboy Starters on the NFC Pro Bowl!!!:headbange[/QUOTE]

Bledsoe, Allen, Witten, and Williams are candidates for reserve spots. Bledsoe might get the nod. Witten is a Pro Bowl-caliver player but likely gets beaten out by Shockey and Crumpler. Williams is overrated but might get in simply because he hits hard. But, there isn't a single Cowboys who deserves to be a starter at the Pro Bowl.

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Well, if Williams get's in because of that, that should make Mr. Taylor (and I 'aint talkin 'bout Jacobs!) a shoe in!!

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Bledsoe is having a good year and is the 2nd best NFC QB and its playing way better than brunnel, Witten is having a good year dispite he has had to been use more as a blocking TE than a receiving 1 because of our problems at tackle and that has hurth his numbers and still is having a better season than cooley dispite this matter but will not get in because of shockey having a great year and Crumpler having more REP.

Player Team G Rec Yds Yds/G Lng Avg TDs 20+
Chris Cooley WAS 13 58 654 50.3 32 11.3 3 5
Jason Witten DAL 13 57 657 50.5 34 11.5 4 6

Allen will get in he's having a good season not great but will get in base on REP , Glover should get in becasue he's having a great season dispite not playing the hole game aprox 60% of the snaps but won't get in I believe.

R.Williams will get in he has more respect fro mthe players and coaches than the media and is having a good season 3 missed assignment (2 vs Was 1 vs Den) that hurth us but overall he is as good as they come.

Now Arizona Wilson is having a good year, Sharper is putting the number so he will get in, Dawkings will get in base on rep more thn anything or Smith whos having a good year.

As I said before Taylor is not there yet maybe next year.

So I believe Cowboys would have 3 maybe 4

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Witten and Cooley are neck and neck, I wouldn't say either is having a better season than the other. Their numbers are almost identical.

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one thing to notice from these picks for all who claim "Portis is underrated".

Ladanian Tomlinson and Shaun Alexander are going to the Pro-Bowl most likely not alone, and in no small part to their potentially Pro-Bowl Fullbacks Lorenzo Neal and Mack Strong leading the way.

as for Portis, nobody has produced more for the Redskins offense this year and last. mostly by himself with only occaisional help from fullback Mike Sellers...

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Bledsoe, Allen, Witten, and Williams are candidates for reserve spots. Bledsoe might get the nod. Witten is a Pro Bowl-caliver player but likely gets beaten out by Shockey and Crumpler. Williams is overrated but might get in simply because he hits hard. But, there isn't a single Cowboys who deserves to be a starter at the Pro Bowl.[/QUOTE]

Well for one the article was written by Pete Prisco, who has been a wounded duck for years.

I don't even think he is close with most of those NFC picks. I most certainly endorse and believe Santana Moss should go to Honolulu, and Portis as well.

But Witten should not go, not even as a reserve. Due to the loss of Adams at LT and a rookie RT in Pettiti, Witten has been kept in the backfield to help block a lot this season and his numbers are way down. But the records show that when they are able to get Witten in the game, the Cowboys win.

I am sorry but I seriously doubt that Brunnel gets the nod to Honolulu over Bledsoe. Bledsoe won his 9th NFL Player of the week award last week, and he leads Brunnel in QB rating, total yardage, TDs, completion percentage and yards per attempt. He is also currently LEADING in the fan vote for the Pro Bowl. Bledsoe may not start, but I do think he makes the Pro Bowl roster.

For WR, Prisco used total yardage only as the decinding factor, he should'nt do that. I am really surprised not too see Plaxico Burress even on Prisco's list. If you read Priscos list for WR's, all 4 appear in order as they do in the NFC stats for total yardage. Smith, Moss, Fitzgerald and Galloway are at the top 4 of the list in that order. Funny that the list mirrors what Prisco says are the WR's for the NFC. Same order too.

[quote="Pete Prisco"][b]WR:[/b] Starters: Steve Smith, Carolina; Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona. [b]Reserves:[/b] Santana Moss, Redskins; Joey Galloway, Bucs.[/quote]

Prisco has no creativity what so ever, anybody can "copy and paste" names to an article.

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Witten and Cooley are neck and neck, I wouldn't say either is having a better season than the other. Their numbers are almost identical.[/QUOTE]

Yes the numbers are almost Identical that what I said and that's wit hwitten playing more as a blocking TE than a receiving 1 because he ahs to help the O-line a lot.

But anyway only 2 get in and I think it will be Crumpler and Shokey even thought Witten is doing more than Crumpler

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[QUOTE=D'BOYZ]Yes the numbers are almost Identical that what I said and that's wit hwitten playing more as a blocking TE than a receiving 1 because he ahs to help the O-line a lot.

But anyway only 2 get in and I think it will be Crumpler and Shokey even thought Witten is doing more than Crumpler[/QUOTE]

Cooley lines up all over the place, from the backfield to the line to spread out wide.

I really doubt Witten does more than Cooley. H-back is a much more complex position than TE.

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Cooley lines up all over the place, from the backfield to the line to spread out wide.

I really doubt Witten does more than Cooley. H-back is a much more complex position than TE.[/QUOTE]

[B]DISCLAIMER[/B] - I hate that I am posting this:
That's a double-edged argument, though. How many receptions has Cooley gotten because he has lined up at WR or has been in motion? I guess the counter argument is that he has had to line up at FB a fair number of times, so maybe it balances out?

FWIW, you are obviously correct that Cooley does more than Witten. There should really be a "utility player" category (kind of like the 6th man award in the NBA) for the guy who does so much that it can't be categorized into a single position.

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Not sure I'm following your logic, why should it matter where he lines up as far as catches go?

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Cooley lines up all over the place, from the backfield to the line to spread out wide.

I really doubt Witten does more than Cooley. H-back is a much more complex position than TE.[/QUOTE]

Mattyk I'm sorry but Witten also lines up all over the place as fullback, HB, WR and TE even KJ has line up as a hb

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[QUOTE=D'BOYZ]Mattyk I'm sorry but Witten also lines up all over the place as fullback, HB, WR and TE even KJ has line up as a hb[/QUOTE]

Well I guess they are pretty even then, just like I originally said.

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Not sure I'm following your logic, why should it matter where he lines up as far as catches go?[/QUOTE]

Because we want (ideally) to compare apples to apples. The HB position complicates that comparison because Cooley gets receptions a TE wouldn't get. If a HB gets 10% of his receptions while lined at WR, that "inflates" his TE reception statistics. It's not a true apples-to-apples comparison.

However, like I said, I'm not sure that it makes a difference. Just food for thought.

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According to D'BOYZ Witten lines up all over the place like Cooley, so I guess it's a closer apples to apples comparison than we thought.

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Cut it any way you want, I'd still take Cooley over Witten.

I might also add, I think Cooley would have a less difficult time adjusting to playing a pure tight end role than Witten would having to play H-Back.

But as far as being a pure football player goes, both guys are tough as nails!!

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]According to D'BOYZ Witten lines up all over the place like Cooley, so I guess it's a closer apples to apples comparison than we thought.[/QUOTE]

Agreed - I was just responding to your post, which all occurred before D'BOYZ post.