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-   -   Why the rich should pay more in taxes (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=37081)

Miller101 06-18-2010 03:00 PM

Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[url=http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/109848/little-dog-large-estate]little-dog-large-estate: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance[/url]

[QUOTE]When Ms. Posner died in March at age 67, Conchita and two other dogs inherited the right to live in her seven-bedroom, $8.3 million Miami Beach mansion, their comfort ensured by a $3 million trust fund.

[/QUOTE]

Ohhh and it gets better! Check this out:

[QUOTE]In an interview with the Miami Herald in 2007, she said the dog's most precious possession was a Cartier necklace worth $15,000, [/QUOTE]

Can you believe this crap!?!? She had so much freaking money that she wills $3,000,000 to her dogs!!!!!!! And when she was alive she bought her DOG a $15,000 necklace!?!?!??! Are you freaking kidding me!? Its a dog! If you don't know who to give your money too; just give it to the Church or a Charity. Anything but an animal! I mean, what is an animal going to do with 3 million? [SIZE="3"]NOTHING!!!![/SIZE] Talk about a waste! And if they want to go throwing money away like that they should pay more in taxes!

Obama better start taxing the crud out of these rich guys soon, because this is some Bullshit! Thats for sure!

Chico23231 06-18-2010 03:10 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
I dont know about more taxes, but this story did interest me earlier. It really speaks to the fact of what people value these days. Instead of making a difference, this happened. This person has every right to make that choice, but it really just amazes me.

firstdown 06-18-2010 03:11 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
I'm sure if she owned an 8.3 million dollar home she had more then 3 million that she left for the dogs. Sounds like a person who's happiness was from her dogs. When the dogs die I'm sure she has it in the will as what happens then. Why should others get bent over how she spends her money?

You also left this part off:
"The canines weren't the only ones who benefited from Ms. Posner's munificence. Seven of her bodyguards, housekeepers and other personal aides were left a total of $26 million under her will, and some also were allowed to live, rent-free, in the mansion to care for the dogs."

firstdown 06-18-2010 03:19 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
It seems that she did leave money to charity but the article did not say how much:

"Ms. Posner left the remainder of her estate to charity, with one-quarter directed to animal shelters and the rest to breast cancer and suicide-prevention causes. She also left another request: that the canine-care staff also look after her pet turtles."

Slingin Sammy 33 06-18-2010 03:20 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=Miller101;707371][URL="http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/109848/little-dog-large-estate"]little-dog-large-estate: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance[/URL]

[/quote]Class envy, wonderful. Why should the Fed have the right to jack people disproportionately (even more than they already do)?

Should I make a list of all the BS pay-offs and crap the politicians do with OUR tax dollars. Posner's doing better than the idiots running the country in that she died with a $26M surplus, not a $ 1T+ /yr. defecit.

P.S. Under the terms of Ms. Posner's trust, the mansion is to be sold after her dogs die, and the proceeds donated to charity.

firstdown 06-18-2010 03:22 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
Also I'm not sure how much but I'm sure she also had to pay a heavy dead/estate tax.

Miller101 06-18-2010 03:48 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;707379]Class envy, wonderful. Why should the Fed have the right to jack people disproportionately (even more than they already do)?

Should I make a list of all the BS pay-offs and crap the politicians do with OUR tax dollars. Posner's doing better than the idiots running the country in that she died with a $26M surplus, not a $ 1T+ /yr. defecit.

P.S. Under the terms of Ms. Posner's trust, the mansion is to be sold after her dogs die, and the proceeds donated to charity.[/quote]

No, dude! You got it all wrong! Conchita is doing better than the idiots running this country. She's got $3,000,000 to spend.

She can't even get into a store to buy anything with it! Dogs aren't allowed! I mean, what a waste! Three million just thrown away! Ms. Posner would have been better off donating that money to TheWarpath.net then giving it to her dog! Can you imagine TheWarpath having that kind of money? They would be able to bring our videos back! Think about it, with that kind of money they could pay the NFL enough to let us make videos of their games. And those were some AWESOME videos too! I miss those videos!

firstdown 06-18-2010 03:53 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
Maybe she should have had them tossed out the window of a moving car into trafic. Sounds like her son did not give her the time of day so she gave her money to the people and pets that made her happy.

I have seen friends spend thousands on their pets which is no different then what she is doing.

Slingin Sammy 33 06-18-2010 04:46 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=Miller101;707390]No, dude! You got it all wrong! Conchita is doing better than the idiots running this country. She's got $3,000,000 to spend.
[/quote]Actually the idiots running the country have an unlimited checkbook and have already run up $ 13T in national debt with another $8T or so coming in the next 10 years. Not to mention the $ 60T + in unfunded obligations of SS & Medicare.

At least Conchita has a limit.

SBXVII 06-18-2010 04:54 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
I'm telling you, a Flat tax is the answer. The only people who don't want it are the rich cause it's a flat % based off their income. If you make less you pay less if you make more you pay more. Simple. No loop holes, no write offs. Just a simple % for everyone.

saden1 06-18-2010 05:10 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
Got to love the estate tax. I wish the dogs all the best...they should enjoy themselves while they can.

Trample the Elderly 06-18-2010 05:24 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
Nimrod thinks the rich pay taxes! :laughing2 The rich can afford fancy lawyers, accountants, and have powerful friends that allow them to pay minor fines if they get caught evading, like Timothy Geithner.

"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes. "

Leona Helmsley

I'm sure this logic will not get past your class envy.

Trample the Elderly 06-18-2010 05:30 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;707413]Actually the idiots running the country have an unlimited checkbook and have already run up $ 13T in national debt with another $8T or so coming in the next 10 years. Not to mention the $ 60T + in unfunded obligations of SS & Medicare.

At least Conchita has a limit.[/quote]

But Sammy, money grows on trees and the Easter Bunny promised me a free meal?!

WaldSkins 06-18-2010 06:06 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=SBXVII;707415]I'm telling you, a Flat tax is the answer. The only people who don't want it are the rich cause it's a flat % based off their income. If you make less you pay less if you make more you pay more. Simple. No loop holes, no write offs. Just a simple % for everyone.[/quote]

Why should you have to pay more in taxes for the more money you make? Just because a person earns more money you think the government should get to take more?

SBXVII 06-18-2010 06:46 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=WaldSkins;707433]Why should you have to pay more in taxes for the more money you make? Just because a person earns more money you think the government should get to take more?[/quote]

Lets put it this way....

the poor can't pay taxes and most likely don't since they don't make enough money if any at all. The Rich hide behind their lawyers and loop holes and write offs. If you haven't figured it out yet you will the middle class is paying the dime, especially since there is so many of the middle class.

Under a flat tax, say a 10% tax on all earnings, everyone pays their equal share of the money they make. So yes if your making 1 mill a yr and I'm making 40,000 our 10% to the government would be different. You would pay more based off of 10% of your larger sum of money you are earning. The flat tax would be equal and fair for all. Everyone pays their 10%. No matter what they make.

Let me ask you this do you think its fair that the middle class should carry the burdon of the majority of the bill? or should everyone pay their part?

budw38 06-18-2010 06:51 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=Trample the Elderly;707426]But Sammy, money grows on trees and the Easter Bunny promised me a free meal?![/quote]
Dammit Trample , I just spent an hour in one of my trees , and I found no stinkin money :( . But I did see a WABBIT !!

WaldSkins 06-18-2010 07:06 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=SBXVII;707436]Lets put it this way....

the poor can't pay taxes and most likely don't since they don't make enough money if any at all. The Rich hide behind their lawyers and loop holes and write offs. If you haven't figured it out yet you will the middle class is paying the dime, especially since there is so many of the middle class.

Under a flat tax, say a 10% tax on all earnings, everyone pays their equal share of the money they make. So yes if your making 1 mill a yr and I'm making 40,000 our 10% to the government would be different. You would pay more based off of 10% of your larger sum of money you are earning. The flat tax would be equal and fair for all. Everyone pays their 10%. No matter what they make.

Let me ask you this do you think its fair that the middle class should carry the burdon of the majority of the bill? or should everyone pay their part?[/quote]

I wished everyone payed their part, but i know the reality that there are too many people taking advantage of the system for that to ever come true. As you said, the poor cant afford it, the rich work there way around it, and then there are too many free loaders out there that don't work that the rest of us pay there portion.

JoeRedskin 06-18-2010 10:47 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=SBXVII;707436]Lets put it this way....

the poor can't pay taxes and most likely don't since they don't make enough money if any at all.[B] The Rich hide behind their lawyers and loop holes and write offs.[/B] If you haven't figured it out yet you will the middle class is paying the dime, especially since there is so many of the middle class.

Under a flat tax, say a 10% tax on all earnings, everyone pays their equal share of the money they make. So yes if your making 1 mill a yr and I'm making 40,000 our 10% to the government would be different. You would pay more based off of 10% of your larger sum of money you are earning. The flat tax would be equal and fair for all. Everyone pays their 10%. No matter what they make.

Let me ask you this do you think its fair that the middle class should carry the burdon of the majority of the bill? or should everyone pay their part?[/quote]

According to this study, the top 1% of income earners pay 40% of the taxes collected and more than all taxes collected from the bottom 95%:

[url=http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24944.html]The Tax Foundation - Tax Burden of Top 1% Now Exceeds That of Bottom 95%[/url]

"Some in Washington say the tax system is still not progressive enough. However, the recent IRS data bolsters the findings of an OECD [Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development] study released last year showing that the U.S.—not France or Sweden—has the most progressive income tax system among OECD nations. We rely more heavily on the top 10 percent of taxpayers than does any nation and our poor people have the lowest tax burden of those in any nation."

Whether you agree with the system or not, it is pretty clear that, in the US, the rich pay taxes. BTW - Leona Helmsely went to jail and paid over 7 million in fines and restitution for tax evasion.

tryfuhl 06-19-2010 11:17 AM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
their money is less liquid, re-enters the system at a lower proportional rate, etc

money isn't infinite

that's why they should pay more

budw38 06-19-2010 06:36 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
For everyone who wants to see the rich pay more in taxes ..... go get rich yourself and pay more taxes !

tryfuhl 06-20-2010 12:33 AM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=Trample the Elderly;707425]Nimrod thinks the rich pay taxes! :laughing2 The rich can afford fancy lawyers, accountants, and have powerful friends that allow them to pay minor fines if they get caught evading, like Timothy Geithner.

"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes. "

Leona Helmsley

I'm sure this logic will not get past your class envy.[/quote]

Indeed.. one of the world's richest men explains why he's a democrat:

[url=http://mediamatters.org/research/200707190007]Message to Wash. Post 's Romano: Warren Buffett explained why he supports Dems | Media Matters for America[/url]

[quote]Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: "The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you're in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent."

Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent.

[...]

Mr Buffett, who runs the investment group Berkshire Hathaway and is widely regarded as the world's most successful investor, said that he was a Democrat because Republicans are more likely to think: "I'm making $80 million a year -- God must have intended me to have a lower tax rate." [/quote]

tryfuhl 06-20-2010 12:35 AM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=WaldSkins;707433]Why should you have to pay more in taxes for the more money you make? Just because a person earns more money you think the government should get to take more?[/quote]
As I said money isn't infinite. Those who hoard without putting back into the system are somewhat penalized on it. The poorer you are the more money you put back into the system proportionately. So if you're making more and more a year you're keeping some of the finite money from reaching other hands.

It's simple, really.

tryfuhl 06-20-2010 12:36 AM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=JoeRedskin;707463]According to this study, the top 1% of income earners pay 40% of the taxes collected and more than all taxes collected from the bottom 95%:

[url=http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24944.html]The Tax Foundation - Tax Burden of Top 1% Now Exceeds That of Bottom 95%[/url]

"Some in Washington say the tax system is still not progressive enough. However, the recent IRS data bolsters the findings of an OECD [Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development] study released last year showing that the U.S.—not France or Sweden—has the most progressive income tax system among OECD nations. We rely more heavily on the top 10 percent of taxpayers than does any nation and our poor people have the lowest tax burden of those in any nation."

Whether you agree with the system or not, it is pretty clear that, in the US, the rich pay taxes. BTW - Leona Helmsely went to jail and paid over 7 million in fines and restitution for tax evasion.[/quote]

If you're talking total then sure.. the top 1pct probably earn more than most of the other 95

Schneed10 06-20-2010 07:19 AM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=tryfuhl;707659]As I said money isn't infinite. Those who hoard without putting back into the system are somewhat penalized on it. The poorer you are the more money you put back into the system proportionately. So if you're making more and more a year you're keeping some of the finite money from reaching other hands.

It's simple, really.[/quote]

As an economics guy I take umbrage with the notion that they're not putting the money back into the system. The only way you can keep money out of the system is put it under a mattress.

If you're spending it, it's in the system. If you're starting a business with it, it's in the system. If you're investing with it, it's in the system. And if you're saving it, it's in the system.

Even if you put your billions in a money market fund, or even a savings account in the bank, that money is doing society a lot of good. The bank takes your money and loans it to people as they finance business ventures, college educations, building an addition on their home, whatever.

And whatever is earned on interest or dividends ends up taxed at the same rate as regular income. Yes that can be shielded to an extent, but I can do the same thing as an average joe. So I'm not really sure what you're talking about, the money is definitely "in the system".

budw38 06-20-2010 03:00 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
As far as Buffett paying a lower % of his money than his cleaning lady , it is because Buffett .... "chooses" not to pay himself an income , but pays his cleaning by way of income . If WB wants to , he can pay himself a salary and pay his cleaning lady through dividends , he could also give a gift / bonus every year and pay the gift tax on it for her .[URL="http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/03/08/how-a-secretary-made-and-gave-away-7-million/"]Lessons From How Grace Groner Made and Gave Away $7 Million - The Wealth Report - WSJ[/URL] .. had the feds taxed her at 70% [url=http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.shtml]U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of the U.S. Tax System[/url] , she would have never been able to do this .

JoeRedskin 06-20-2010 05:48 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=tryfuhl;707660]If you're talking total then sure.. the top 1pct probably earn more than most of the other 95[/quote]

The top 1% in income account for slightly over 40% of all income taxed.

The top .1% account for 20% of income taxed. The adjusted gross income cut off for that .1% is 2.1 Million (if you make more than 2.1 you are in the top .1%)

The adjusted gross income cut off for the top 1% is ~410K.

So yes. The rich make a lot of money. They also pay (as the tables from my previous post show) more taxes than the rest of the "Average Joe's" combined.

Hate the rich, envy them, whatever. If you think the methodology of the statistics is incorredct and can actually dispute the facts, fine.

But opinions without factual basis are simply prejudices.

tryfuhl 06-20-2010 11:52 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=Schneed10;707683]As an economics guy I take umbrage with the notion that they're not putting the money back into the system. The only way you can keep money out of the system is put it under a mattress.

If you're spending it, it's in the system. If you're starting a business with it, it's in the system. If you're investing with it, it's in the system. And if you're saving it, it's in the system.

Even if you put your billions in a money market fund, or even a savings account in the bank, that money is doing society a lot of good. The bank takes your money and loans it to people as they finance business ventures, college educations, building an addition on their home, whatever.

And whatever is earned on interest or dividends ends up taxed at the same rate as regular income. Yes that can be shielded to an extent, but I can do the same thing as an average joe. So I'm not really sure what you're talking about, the money is definitely "in the system".[/quote]

like I said, proportionately

certainly you understand finance better since that's your thing.. but there's a lot of money of theirs NOT going into the system as well

someone making 20k a year will probably put in nearly all of that

someone worth 100mil probably isn't putting 90% of that back into the system

JoeRedskin 06-21-2010 12:47 AM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=tryfuhl;707769]like I said, proportionately

certainly you understand finance better since that's your thing.. but there's a lot of money of theirs NOT going into the system as well

someone making 20k a year will probably put in nearly all of that

[B]someone worth 100mil probably isn't putting 90% of that back into the system[/B][/quote]

Just tell me where you are getting your facts. You making them up or have you actually researched your position?

How are the rich "not putting it back into the system". Do they have underground vaults with money stacked and locked away?

GMScud 06-21-2010 01:00 AM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=JoeRedskin;707776]Just tell me where you are getting your facts. You making them up or have you actually researched your position?

How are the rich "not putting it back into the system". Do they have underground vaults with money stacked and locked away?[/quote]

The rich are certainly putting it back into the system. Separately, many probably do have underground vaults.

DynamiteRave 06-21-2010 01:46 AM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
Sometimes I wonder if people (not anyone here, but a general question) look at things from a Darwinian-like perspective; that people should always strive to attain as much as they can (objects, money, whatever gets your rocks off) and that those who can't seem grab themselves by their bootstraps or catch a break and attain what they need should be shunned, ignored or otherwise not helped because they are not fit enough (in whatever way necessary) to move up the proverbial ladder.

And I'm not saying that Joe Sixfigures should be the one helping out those who are in need, so don't accuse me of that.

Trample the Elderly 06-21-2010 11:32 AM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
I don't see why we have to pay taxes at all? I mean they do have a printing press and Keynesians turn it on whenever they feel like it anyway.

As I said before,

[url=http://cnsnews.com/news/article/68094]CNSNews.com - Middle Class--Not the Rich or the Poor--Pay Majority of Federal Taxes, Says CBO Data[/url]

JoeRedskin 06-21-2010 12:29 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
Just looking at the chart in your article, it still is clear that taxes are weighted to the wealthier.

To me the title of your article is somewhat misleading - To conclude that the "Middle Class" pay the most taxes the article presents an income range from 34K - 141K as paying 50% of the taxes. Okay, while I don't have a problem saying that 141K is "middle class", the definition used is still a pretty broad income range and includes within it taxation rates that are not quite an "apples to apples" comparison. Let's break it down based on the figures cited in the article itself.

From the numbers given in the article and based on the "Quintiles" at the bottom of the page:

Incomes in the 34K-50K range pay 9% of all taxes;
Incomes in the 50K-74K range pay 16% of all taxes.
Thus, people with incomes 74K-141K pay 25% (50% - 9% - 16%) of all taxes.

Further, since all people making more than 74K pay 68% of the taxes, people making more than 141K are paying 43% of all taxes (68% - 25%(the amount paid by the 74K-141K bracket)).

Lets look at the supporting (and cited) data which seems at odds with the article itself:

Under the CBO data (at page 6) cited by the article, the top 10% of income earners (people with pre-tax incomes greater than 394K) pay 55% of all taxes. In other words, ~12M households pay over half of all taxes collected from a total of 116M households (also from the CBO data). Maybe it's just me, but if you are making close to 400K and people within your income class make up only the top 10% of the income population, you are [I]not[/I] middle class.

A quote from the CBO article: "Higher-income groups earn a disproportionate share of pretax income and pay a disproportionate share of federal taxes. In 2007, the highest quintile earned 55.9 percent of pretax income and paid 68.9 percent of federal taxes; the top 1 percent of households earned 19.4 percent of income and paid 28.1 percent of taxes."
[url]http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/tax/2010/AverageFedTaxRates2007.pdf[/url]

I am not saying it's right or wrong, I am just saying that those screaming "the Rich aren't paying taxes!" are ignoring the facts. As a result they are either choosing to be ignorant, intentionally spreading misinformation, or simply buying into some demogogue's agenda.

The "Rich" [I]are[/I] taxed very heavily and are certainly paying for the privilege of being allowed to accumulate wealth.

firstdown 06-21-2010 01:21 PM

Re: Why the rich should pay more in taxes
 
[quote=DynamiteRave;707779]Sometimes I wonder if people (not anyone here, but a general question) look at things from a Darwinian-like perspective; that people should always strive to attain as much as they can (objects, money, whatever gets your rocks off) and that those who can't seem grab themselves by their bootstraps or catch a break and attain what they need should be shunned, ignored or otherwise not helped because they are not fit enough (in whatever way necessary) to move up the proverbial ladder.

And I'm not saying that Joe Sixfigures should be the one helping out those who are in need, so don't accuse me of that.[/quote]

You mean like the person who is a snot nose and bitching all the time.
Like this. WARNING BAD LANGUAGE

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1MbM6D6PeM&feature=related]YouTube - Rebel Son Quit Your Bitchin flva[/ame]


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