Gibbs

[skinsfan242]

I know half the people don't agree with what Gibbs has done but lets take a look back.

He drafted C. Rogers over M. Williams (who I know everyone wanted). How did that end up?

We got Portis and Springs essentially for Bailey and T. Bell.

We Got M. Washington, C. Griffin, C. Rabach, L. Fletcher, Randle El, Moss

We Drafted J. Campbell, S. Taylor, L. Landry, R. McIntosh, A. Montgomery, K. Golston

Didn't overpay Smoot and then brought him back for much less

We found C. Wilson. L. Alexander, S. Suisham, E. Albright

We waited to play J. Campbell until he was ready while everyone was screaming for him. We didn't throw him in the fire look at how that worked out for San Fran and others.

He built a physical team from Spurriers mess he left us with.

We are complaining about a WINNING record when we haven't won anything in 16 years.

Sure there were a few mishaps Lloyd, Archuleta, Clark.

But can anyone say when if he steps down we aren't light years ahead of where we were? I didn't think so.

[BleedBurgundy]

Not to be a dick but this has been said ad nauseam. Try the search feature... That said, I do agree with everything you posted.

[jdlea]

The only problem with that is that if he were to leave, this team won't have much of future because Washington looks like his career is going to start to tail off, Rabach is still solid, but Fletcher is 32, Griffin is almost done, and Santana Moss...well, he looks like Santana Moss again. The guy was always injured and inconsistent in NY and now he's doing the same thing here. He's only had 2 1000+ yard receiving years out of 7 in the league, it's not that he can't play, he just can't stay healthy and that leads to inconsistency. As for Randle El, he should be solid for the foreseeable future, but outside of that, this team is not that well prepared to make a long run into the future.

None of this should be misconstrued as being a "hater," I really like all of these guys, but they don't have much time left and this team needs to start getting younger. I like the mix they have, and by no means are the Skins the oldest team in the NFL or even that close to it, but there does need to be some infusion of young talent on the offensive side of the ball and some more of it on the D Line.

Also, Marty "found" Ethan Albright who was already in the league for 5 years.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by jdlea

The only problem with that is that if he were to leave, this team won't have much of future because Washington looks like his career is going to start to tail off, Rabach is still solid, but Fletcher is 32, Griffin is almost done, and Santana Moss...well, he looks like Santana Moss again. The guy was always injured and inconsistent in NY and now he's doing the same thing here. He's only had 2 1000+ yard receiving years out of 7 in the league, it's not that he can't play, he just can't stay healthy and that leads to inconsistency. As for Randle El, he should be solid for the foreseeable future, but outside of that, this team is not that well prepared to make a long run into the future.

None of this should be misconstrued as being a "hater," I really like all of these guys, but they don't have much time left and this team needs to start getting younger. I like the mix they have, and by no means are the Skins the oldest team in the NFL or even that close to it, but there does need to be some infusion of young talent on the offensive side of the ball and some more of it on the D Line.

Also, Marty "found" Ethan Albright who was already in the league for 5 years.

We have HB Blades in the wings to replace Fletcher, I wouldn't be surprised if is an impact player next year. Michael Espy to replace Moss (yes I think he's that good) only concern is coming back from injury.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

We have HB Blades in the wings to replace Fletcher, I wouldn't be surprised if is an impact player next year. Michael Espy to replace Moss (yes I think he's that good) only concern is coming back from injury.

Time will tell about HB Blades, but I'm not convinced. Also, I'm sorry, but you're wrong about Espy. There is about a 10% chance he becomes a #1 receiver. I'd love to see a study about the percentage of players came from a practice squad and became productive.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by jdlea

Time will tell about HB Blades, but I'm not convinced. Also, I'm sorry, but you're wrong about Espy. There is about a 10% chance he becomes a #1 receiver. I'd love to see a study about the percentage of players came from a practice squad and became productive.

I agree...but you're being polite. 0% chance! This is a guy that has been in the league for 2 years, tore his patella tendon this season, and even when he was at Miss had only 3 receiving tds in 2 years...and a career high of 543 yards in 05.
He was undrafted for a reason. He is another Cliff Russell at best!

[DFI]

all great points. Good post

[BringBackJoeT]

Originally Posted by skinsfan242

I know half the people don't agree with what Gibbs has done but lets take a look back.

He drafted C. Rogers over M. Williams (who I know everyone wanted). How did that end up?

We got Portis and Springs essentially for Bailey and T. Bell.

We Got M. Washington, C. Griffin, C. Rabach, L. Fletcher, Randle El, Moss

We Drafted J. Campbell, S. Taylor, L. Landry, R. McIntosh, A. Montgomery, K. Golston

Didn't overpay Smoot and then brought him back for much less

We found C. Wilson. L. Alexander, S. Suisham, E. Albright

We waited to play J. Campbell until he was ready while everyone was screaming for him. We didn't throw him in the fire look at how that worked out for San Fran and others.

He built a physical team from Spurriers mess he left us with.

We are complaining about a WINNING record when we haven't won anything in 16 years.

Sure there were a few mishaps Lloyd, Archuleta, Clark.

But can anyone say when if he steps down we aren't light years ahead of where we were? I didn't think so.

Indeed, this is a subject that we're beating to death. But to respond to the challenge of "can anyone say when [Gibbs] steps down we aren't light years ahead of where we were," I can't imagine I'm the only one who could very, very easily say that, if he were to step down today, we are NOT "light years" ahead of where we were. Again, we're going over and over this topic. But as that bastard Parcells proclaimed, you're as good as your record, and Gibbs overall record more than three and a half years into his second stint is below
.500, which makes him almost indistinguishable from the five coaches (Richie, Turner, Robiske, Marty, Spurrier) who preceded him (well, Marty actually had an even .500). As Boswell said in the Post last week, this team is mediocre. Period. If you're saying that Gibbs has laid a foundation for a powerhouse in the years to come, well, that's something I haven't heard too many NFL experts say. Sure, the so-called "experts" consistently show that they don't exactly have crystal balls, but I guess I'm just not as confident as you are that the current team is a youthful, soon-to-be dominator. Look, I'm not blaming anything on Coach Joe, I'm simply responding to your suggestion that he has radically turned the organization around. He hasn't.

[irish]

Originally Posted by BringBackJoeT

Indeed, this is a subject that we're beating to death. But to respond to the challenge of "can anyone say when [Gibbs] steps down we aren't light years ahead of where we were," I can't imagine I'm the only one who could very, very easily say that, if he were to step down today, we are NOT "light years" ahead of where we were. Again, we're going over and over this topic. But as that bastard Parcells proclaimed, you're as good as your record, and Gibbs overall record more than three and a half years into his second stint is below
.500, which makes him almost indistinguishable from the five coaches (Richie, Turner, Robiske, Marty, Spurrier) who preceded him (well, Marty actually had an even .500). As Boswell said in the Post last week, this team is mediocre. Period. If you're saying that Gibbs has laid a foundation for a powerhouse in the years to come, well, that's something I haven't heard too many NFL experts say. Sure, the so-called "experts" consistently show that they don't exactly have crystal balls, but I guess I'm just not as confident as you are that the current team is a youthful, soon-to-be dominator. Look, I'm not blaming anything on Coach Joe, I'm simply responding to your suggestion that he has radically turned the organization around. He hasn't.

I couldnt agree more. Any notion that this team is light years ahead of where it was is just not reality. I think until the organization fundamentally changes the way it does business (build the foundation through the draft and fill a spot or 2 with FAs) then it will continue to have mediocre results.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

I couldnt agree more. Any notion that this team is light years ahead of where it was is just not reality. I think until the organization fundamentally changes the way it does business (build the foundation through the draft and fill a spot or 2 with FAs) then it will continue to have mediocre results.

I think you're greatly underestimating/ignoring what we have done with the draft.

[irish]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think you're greatly underestimating/ignoring what we have done with the draft.

I think they have done a decent job with 1st round picks but after that they dont really have any pics so they cant build any foundation. Anyone that remotely follows college ball can make decent 1st round picks, it the later rounds that provide the foundation & depth all consistent winners in the nfl have.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

I think they have done a decent job with 1st round picks but after that they dont really have any pics so they cant build any foundation. Anyone that remotely follows college ball can make decent 1st round picks, it the later rounds that provide the foundation & depth all consistent winners in the nfl have.

You're making this argument in another thread and it kind of baffles me quite honestly

And also, what rounds do you think McIntosh, Cooley, Blades, Golston, Montgomery were all drafted in?

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by irish

I think they have done a decent job with 1st round picks but after that they dont really have any pics so they cant build any foundation. Anyone that remotely follows college ball can make decent 1st round picks, it the later rounds that provide the foundation & depth all consistent winners in the nfl have.

Assuming that we don't know if a player is a bust until his third season, let's look at 2005 first round picks who appear to be busts in year 3:

Alex Smith (#1)
Cedric Benson (#4)
Pacman Jones (#6)
Troy Williamson (#7)
Mike Williams (#10)
Erasmus James (#18)
Matt Jones (#21)

I may be missing some, but those are 1st round busts from just one draft. Projecting college players to the NFL is not as easy as you make it out to be.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by irish

Anyone that remotely follows college ball can make decent 1st round picks...

Ryan Leaf was seen by some to be better than Peyton Manning.

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by BringBackJoeT

Indeed, this is a subject that we're beating to death. But to respond to the challenge of "can anyone say when [Gibbs] steps down we aren't light years ahead of where we were," I can't imagine I'm the only one who could very, very easily say that, if he were to step down today, we are NOT "light years" ahead of where we were. Again, we're going over and over this topic. But as that bastard Parcells proclaimed, you're as good as your record, and Gibbs overall record more than three and a half years into his second stint is below
.500, which makes him almost indistinguishable from the five coaches (Richie, Turner, Robiske, Marty, Spurrier) who preceded him (well, Marty actually had an even .500). As Boswell said in the Post last week, this team is mediocre. Period. If you're saying that Gibbs has laid a foundation for a powerhouse in the years to come, well, that's something I haven't heard too many NFL experts say. Sure, the so-called "experts" consistently show that they don't exactly have crystal balls, but I guess I'm just not as confident as you are that the current team is a youthful, soon-to-be dominator. Look, I'm not blaming anything on Coach Joe, I'm simply responding to your suggestion that he has radically turned the organization around. He hasn't.

Rabach is the only offensive lineman we have who is not in decline and he is no dominator. It's also likely Portis has only a couple of years left, Sellers is no spring chicken, Moss is inconsistent and injury prone and ARE isn't going to dominate anybody. We've got Cambell and Cooley to build a future with on offense Period.

On defense, we can build with Taylor, Landry, Carter, Rocky and maybe Montgomery. Face it. We've got very little to build a future with. Out next phrase will be a rebuilding phase-- a painfull one. The organization as a whole hasn't performed above the NFL norm. Gibbs hasn't improved it.