Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

[12thMan]

At the very least, Rob Jackson has played himself into a new contract offer somewhere. Hopefully here. How can Jim Haslett take these two talented players and make them co-exist on the field.

Unless I've missed something, Brian Orakpo does not have one interception as a Washington Redskin. Rob Jackson has four this season and one for a touchdown.

My question is, are we so wedded to the idea of keeping Orakpo no matter what? Has he been that valuable to the team? His sack total has declined since his first season and he's nothing to write home about in pass coverage. By keeping both players, are we limiting one or the other's potential impact on the team?

[skinsfan69]

I think Orakpo should be the starter. Yes Jackson has made some very nice plays but Rak is the better player. Well, I should say he's a better pass rusher. But it's good to see someone that's been here a while get a chance to play and do well while he's in there.

[los panda]

there is room for both.

rob jackson's stat line has benefited from the entire defense raising their game. i'm sure orakpo would have done the same, they're both able to make big plays.

[mooby]

Excellent question and definitely something that will be an issue after this season. Personally I think we let Jackson walk. He has played his way into starter money, which he will undoubtedly want, along with being a starter on another team. And there's just no way to keep them both on the field at the same time, unless we shift one of them (probably Jackson) to MLB, which I don't see happening. And even then he wouldn't be starting until Fletch retires/gets let go.

What I could see happening is us getting a trade offer for Orakpo, probably from a 4-3 team, and that making our decision a lot easier. If not, Orakpo stays, Jackson goes. There's just no room for both of them. The big thing here is what coaches value more, a linebacker who's good in coverage, or a linebacker who's good at rushing the passer. Usually it's the latter that wins out.

[12thMan]

You can't just say the defense has raised it's game in vacuum. Rob Jackson is a big part of that reason. You can't dismiss that. And when Orakpo was starting the Redskins were abysmal in the turnover category.

Are we conflating better athlete with better football player?

[los panda]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You can't just say the defense has raised it's game in vacuum. Rob Jackson is a big part of that reason. You can't dismiss that. And when Orakpo was starting the Redskins were abysmal in the turnover category.

Are we conflating better athlete with better football player?

no doubt jackson is a big part of the improvement.

also can't simply cite that when orakpo was in, turnovers were few and far between.

the play of the entire 11 on defense doesn't solely depend on 1 olb.
they're both very able to make plays, in different ways. there is room for both

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You can't just say the defense has raised it's game in vacuum. Rob Jackson is a big part of that reason. You can't dismiss that. And when Orakpo was starting the Redskins were abysmal in the turnover category.

Are we conflating better athlete with better football player?

Are we basing this on the 1 1/3 games that we actually saw Orakpo on the field this season? If so, I have to point out how small of a sample size that is. If not, I feel like it's a little ridiculous to compare any other year to this one given the way winning seems to have inspired this team; the defense in particular.

I think this team really needs to keep as much talent as it possibly can on the defensive side of the ball, particularly when you consider how bad they were to start the season. Having depth should be a luxury. I'm glad Jackson stepped in and made some plays, but I don't think he's better than Brian Orakpo and I wouldn't cut or trade Orakpo in order to keep him. Also, I think creating a hole behind Jackson is a bad idea. I like Wilson and Alexander as situational players, but I think banking on Jackson and thinking he'll never get hurt would be a mistake. For me, if you get rid of Orakpo, you also need a new guy to back up Jackson.

As happy as I've been with Jackson's impact, which surprised me, I still think Orakpo comes back and is the starter on this defense. If the front office decides Jackson is the better player, I'll be very surprised.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You can't just say the defense has raised it's game in vacuum. Rob Jackson is a big part of that reason. You can't dismiss that. And when Orakpo was starting the Redskins were abysmal in the turnover category.

Are we conflating better athlete with better football player?

You are exactly right. This post hits it on the head.
This very same thing that happened on our offense. A so called "better player" Fred Davis went down and a perceived "lesser player" Logan Paulsen had to take over and the team improved. Coincidence? No.
Team Chemistry is so important, sometimes it is a small tiny unappreciated skill that can solidify a unit. Hardly anyone appreciates a run blocking TE on offense, it is all receiving as the measurable for TE's. On defense nobody appreciates an OLB that can cover over one that gets more sacks.

We talk and preach about balance, but we do not have as much balance on defense when both of our OLB's are similar strong pass rush guys but neither is a great coverage LB. You can't rush both OLB's on every play, they have to cover at some point. Yes we give up sacks to our sack total with out Rak and Jackson in his place. But sacks is just one phase of the game and we are winning with Jackson. With Jackson we gain a compliment to the defense and a skill set that was missing at the OLB position that in turn helps solidify the defense.
Winning is more important than stats and having a solid def and off units is more important than leading the league in sacks. There is so much more to football than one stat.

[los panda]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

You are exactly right. This post hits it on the head.
This very same thing that happened on our offense. A so called "better player" Fred Davis went down and a perceived "lesser player" Logan Paulsen had to take over and the team improved. Coincidence? No.
Team Chemistry is so important, sometimes it is a small tiny unappreciated skill that can solidify a unit. That is what happened, nobody appreciates a run blocking TE on offense, it is all passing. On defense nobody appreciates an OLB that can cover over sacks.
We talk and preach about balance, but we do not have balance on defense when both of our OLB's are similar strong pass rush guys but neither is a great coverage LB. You can't rush both OLB's on every play, they have to cover at some point. Yes we give up sacks to our sack total with out Rak and Jackson in his place. But sacks is just one phase of the game and we are winning with Jackson. With Jackson we gain a compliment to the defense and a skill set that was missing at the OLB position that in turn helps solidify the defense.

please

[SFREDSKIN]

Of course there is, if it wasn't for his backup depth the skins would be screwed. There's always room for great players.

[GridIron26]

In my opinion, it's really imperative for us to try resign Jackson. No I don't think we would limit both's potential impact on the team if we keep both. Our defense experienced decline in pass rush once Orakpo went down. Orakpo is better at pressuring QB than Jackson is, however Jackson makes plays that Orakpo doesn't. If Orakpo or Kerrigan goes down next season, Jackson can fill in immediately and there will not be a significant decline in defense performance.

To maximize both potential impact for our defense is to play them both, along with Kerrigan. After what I have seen how creative Haslett is with defense looks, I have 100% confidence in Haslett's ability to maximize all players' potential.

[Chico23231]

cant let Jackson just walk after his play this year. no way, unless you want to experience Antonio Pierce all over again. He creates way too many turnovers, gotta keep him and give him some snaps.

[MTK]

I don't think Jackson has played himself into a starter type, big money contract. If someone wants to give him that, so be it. I think we can keep him for a decent deal.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I don't think Jackson has played himself into a starter type, big money contract. If someone wants to give him that, so be it. I think we can keep him for a decent deal.

Yeah, I'm not convinced he's going to command a huge salary on the market either. He'll probably test the waters but staying with a playoff team has to appeal to him.

[12thMan]

Mooby, so we're kinda on the same page here. Orakpo is 26 years old, Rob Jackson is 27 years old. I'm not saying we should, but I'm curious what's the market going to demand for Jackson's services and how much cheaper would that be for Orakpo's current deal.

Also, seems to me guys like Jackson end up playing for the Giants or Philly.