What are you looking for vs the Lions?

[30gut]

Preseason game #2 vs the Lions.

What are you looking for?

[Meks]

Better overall defensive performance but more toward the secondary.. I want to see the system start to click for those guys....

More pass rush, push up front... Team as a whole did a great job against the run last week but I'd love more pressure on the qb...

Not to see our qbs, no matter whos behind center, getting drilled. Seriously. It's too early to be getting smoked back there. O line needs to improve in pass pro...

More holes for the RBs... Better push off the line against a good lions front 4 ... Want to feel comfortable that guys are understanding our blocking schemes...

Better play calling and less predictable shit on offense on certain downs... I want some surprises, a clear plan of attack in mind ... While kyle was the most up and down you praise and then want to kill him the next second, Jay hasn't impressed me much more....

Tres way kicking the ball off.

No injuries on either side.

And that's ... What I'm looking for on Thursday.

[SFREDSKIN]

Better special teams play, DB/S play, RGIII consistency, OL play, Smith at LB.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Progress and 0 injuries.

[hagams]

Like stated above, no injuries and better play out of the DB's. We were beat like a drum last year in the secondary, so even a small improvement would be nice. I really want to see how long we play the 1st team. I'm hoping the O-line comes together like buttcheeks and keeps our little turd (spoken with love) safe in the pocket

[Alvin Walton]

A win and a good showing for RG3 so the Lions fans I work with will STFU.

[KI Skins Fan]

Primarily, I'd like to see the first team offense and defense on the field for more snaps.

[30gut]

DEFENSE

-I want to see the first unit defense perform a lot better, especially the secondary.

The SAF didn't make any plays that stood out. The back-up SAF seemed more active and made more plays then the first unit. Duke was more active then Dash, with Jeron back I'm looking for more.

DHall at CB2 looked shaky and apprehensive and the back-ups looking like back-ups. With Amerson back in the line-up I want to see a better outing from the CB, not a good look letting the Browns march-up the field on them.

-Who is gonna play at ILB? Keenan and Compton are both banged up. Riley and Spaight?

-I want the front 5 to look dominant, Paea made some plays but i expect more from this unit then I saw against the Browns. And if Kerrigan is back I want to see him applying pressure.

OFFENSE

I want to see Griffin get more snaps and throw more passes, move the pocket throw quick from spread formations.

I'm curious how they'll handle the lack of TEs via formations or personnel. I would like spread formations on 1st downs where they run the ball vs nickel defense.

I have to admit I still would like to see Scherff at RT, if its not with the first unit then rotate him in with the second unit.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

DEFENSE

-I want to see the first unit defense perform a lot better, especially the secondary.

The SAF didn't make any plays that stood out. The back-up SAF seemed more active and made more plays then the first unit. Duke was more active then Dash, with Jeron back I'm looking for more.

DHall at CB2 looked shaky and apprehensive and the back-ups looking like back-ups. With Amerson back in the line-up I want to see a better outing from the CB, not a good look letting the Browns march-up the field on them.

-Who is gonna play at ILB? Keenan and Compton are both banged up. Riley and Spaight?

-I want the front 5 to look dominant, Paea made some plays but i expect more from this unit then I saw against the Browns. And if Kerrigan is back I want to see him applying pressure.

OFFENSE

I want to see Griffin get more snaps and throw more passes, move the pocket throw quick from spread formations.

I'm curious how they'll handle the lack of TEs via formations or personnel. I would like spread formations on 1st downs where they run the ball vs nickel defense.

I have to admit I still would like to see Scherff at RT, if its not with the first unit then rotate him in with the second unit.

The Browns have one of the best offensive lines in football (wasted on terrible QBs/RBs); Matt Williamson ranked them second behind the Cowpukes line.

[Schneed10]

Right side of the offensive line - Scherff and Moses. If they keep up the strong performance it bodes very well. I want to see Moses avoid lunging in pass pro. And nobody got to the 2nd level in run blocking like Scherff did against Cleveland. If all that good stuff continues then I'll feel really really good about our line.

Robert needs to look like he knows where to go with the ball.

Defense, I'm not worried if we do some bending. We're just playing base defense, no blitzing, no crazy scheming. So all I can really judge is man on man, who's winning the trench battle.

I don't think you can learn anything about the secondary in the preseason unless the team actually gets out of its base defense.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

...I don't think you can learn anything about the secondary in the preseason unless the team actually gets out of its base defense.

Why do you think you can't learn about the secondary in preseason playing base D? Honest question.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Why do you think you can't learn about the secondary in preseason playing base D? Honest question.

I guess a blanket statement like that isn't the best thing in the world. I guess you can learn that Hall appears healthy enough (or not) to run and cut and keep up with WRs on breaks, you can see whether Goldson is coming up and being physical against the run, basic football stuff like that.

But specifically with Barry's defense, the DBs are taught to read the QB's eyes instead of pattern matching and running with the receiver. And the reason you do that is to ball-hawk and try to come up with interceptions.

Of course, if the QB has time to sit back and look you off, your secondary will get exposed no matter what. We didn't play Kerrigan or Galette in game 1, and per normal preseason games we didn't tip our hand on scheme by showing a lot of our blitz packages. Basically - we didn't get pressure on the QB, and I don't expect us to get pressure on the QB when we play the Lions.

The pass rush pressure and the reading of QB eye movement by the DBs go hand in hand - pass rush pressure leads to rushed throws, which lead to INTs if the DBs are looking at the QB.

Our whole defense is built around stopping the run with the beef up front, and one-gap penetration to disrupt the passing game, with the DBs being taught to take advantage of that. It is an aggressive style that guns for turnovers and big plays.

Until I see us getting pressure like we'll finally be trying to do in Week 1, I'll withhold judgment on the effectiveness of the secondary.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I guess a blanket statement like that isn't the best thing in the world. I guess you can learn that Hall appears healthy enough (or not) to run and cut and keep up with WRs on breaks, you can see whether Goldson is coming up and being physical against the run, basic football stuff like that.

What you call basic football stuff is the exact stuff that I feel can be evaluated during preseason games. The basics can be evaluated because they are more independent and less scheme/team oriented.

Stuff like Hall looking apprehensive, playing soft and off, being out of position/missing tackles, giving up yards after catch and more are things that can be gleaned from these games despite the vanilla nature of the D.

Im curious where are you getting your views on Barry's D from? Some of what you are saying is a bit off to me. First, all NFL defenses, especially LBs, play some pattern match and for me not playing more pattern match (as opposed to spot drop) was one of the weak spots in Hasletts defense.


Second, saying a DB is playing man/press then also saying they are looking at the QBs eyes doesn't match up. Typically when playing man a DB isn't reading the QB. An old mantra in man to man is that if you see the ball leave the QBs hand you're gonna watch a receiver making a catch. A long winded way of saying that man corners should be watching their receiver. Looking at the QB usually happens in zone/off coverage (like cover 3) when the CBs are allowed to flat-foot read or read with a certain number of footsteps before reacting to the route.

Now if you're talking about the LBs they might have time to read the QB before trailing their TE/RB in man.

So like I said I'm curious as to the origin of your takes on Barry's D. A couple of good sources are Mark Bullock and Sam Golden.

Cheers, much better convo then other nonsense floating around anyhow.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 30gut

What you call basic football stuff is the exact stuff that I feel can be evaluated during preseason games. The basics can be evaluated because they are more independent and less scheme/team oriented.

Stuff like Hall looking apprehensive, playing soft and off, being out of position/missing tackles, giving up yards after catch and more are things that can be gleaned from these games despite the vanilla nature of the D.

Im curious where are you getting your views on Barry's D from? Some of what you are saying is a bit off to me. First, all NFL defenses, especially LBs, play some pattern match and for me not playing more pattern match (as opposed to spot drop) was one of the weak spots in Hasletts defense.


Second, saying a DB is playing man/press then also saying they are looking at the QBs eyes doesn't match up. Typically when playing man a DB isn't reading the QB. An old mantra in man to man is that if you see the ball leave the QBs hand you're gonna watch a receiver making a catch. A long winded way of saying that man corners should be watching their receiver. Looking at the QB usually happens in zone/off coverage (like cover 3) when the CBs are allowed to flat-foot read or read with a certain number of footsteps before reacting to the route.

Now if you're talking about the LBs they might have time to read the QB before trailing their TE/RB in man.

So like I said I'm curious as to the origin of your takes on Barry's D. A couple of good sources are Mark Bullock and Sam Golden.

Cheers, much better convo then other nonsense floating around anyhow.

My comments centered around what the DBs are doing, not the LBs, in case that wasn't clear. When in press man the CBs are of course pattern matching and not watching the QB. But the safeties are taught to keep their eyes on the QB in this defense. I won't judge them too much without an earnest attempt by the gameplan to get pressure on the QB.

But in general I don't think you learn too much from preseason. Nobody's gameplanning for anybody.

I do want to see players who have been knicked up show that they can move normally. And I do want to see the younger players esp Scherff and Moses continue to know their assignments and execute well with their feet. But without gameplans being brought into it, I don't know how meaningful the evaluation is.

[That Guy]

no injuries. competence.