What are you looking for vs the Lions?

[silverspring]

Improved defensive back play and I want to see our oline play well again.

[CRedskinsRule]

reasons to drink the koolaid. (and not Jim Jones kind either)

[NC_Skins]

Right side OL.
RG3 progression.
Front 7 pressure on their OL.
More quality runs by Jones.

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

reasons to drink the koolaid. (and not Jim Jones kind either)

[skinsfaninok]

Griffin throwing about 12 times, no sacks, good rush

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I guess a blanket statement like that isn't the best thing in the world. I guess you can learn that Hall appears healthy enough (or not) to run and cut and keep up with WRs on breaks, you can see whether Goldson is coming up and being physical against the run, basic football stuff like that.

What you call basic football stuff is the exact stuff that I feel can be evaluated during preseason games. The basics can be evaluated because they are more independent and less scheme/team oriented.

Stuff like Hall looking apprehensive, playing soft and off, being out of position/missing tackles, giving up yards after catch and more are things that can be gleaned from these games despite the vanilla nature of the D.

Im curious where are you getting your views on Barry's D from? Some of what you are saying is a bit off to me. First, all NFL defenses, especially LBs, play some pattern match and for me not playing more pattern match (as opposed to spot drop) was one of the weak spots in Hasletts defense.


Second, saying a DB is playing man/press then also saying they are looking at the QBs eyes doesn't match up. Typically when playing man a DB isn't reading the QB. An old mantra in man to man is that if you see the ball leave the QBs hand you're gonna watch a receiver making a catch. A long winded way of saying that man corners should be watching their receiver. Looking at the QB usually happens in zone/off coverage (like cover 3) when the CBs are allowed to flat-foot read or read with a certain number of footsteps before reacting to the route.

Now if you're talking about the LBs they might have time to read the QB before trailing their TE/RB in man.

So like I said I'm curious as to the origin of your takes on Barry's D. A couple of good sources are Mark Bullock and Sam Golden.

Cheers, much better convo then other nonsense floating around anyhow.

[Daseal]

I'm likely in the minority on this one, but I'd like to see the starters for at least two series. I'd like to see RG3 and KC split those series. I would like to see how KC looks with and vs. starters and RG3 with/vs the exact same group.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I'm likely in the minority on this one, but I'd like to see the starters for at least two series. I'd like to see RG3 and KC split those series. I would like to see how KC looks with and vs. starters and RG3 with/vs the exact same group.

that's exactly what the skins are trying to avoid though.

[Daseal]

Originally Posted by That Guy

that's exactly what the skins are trying to avoid though.

Why? I hear all the talk about people earning their spots. Let's see two guys compete with similar circumstances.

[Chico23231]

The secondary, QB, and Oline play is what Ill watch tonight. I thought the secondary left alot to be desired....Id like Jarrett to get some reps with the starters.

DHall question mark is bigger after the first game

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 30gut

What you call basic football stuff is the exact stuff that I feel can be evaluated during preseason games. The basics can be evaluated because they are more independent and less scheme/team oriented.

Stuff like Hall looking apprehensive, playing soft and off, being out of position/missing tackles, giving up yards after catch and more are things that can be gleaned from these games despite the vanilla nature of the D.

Im curious where are you getting your views on Barry's D from? Some of what you are saying is a bit off to me. First, all NFL defenses, especially LBs, play some pattern match and for me not playing more pattern match (as opposed to spot drop) was one of the weak spots in Hasletts defense.


Second, saying a DB is playing man/press then also saying they are looking at the QBs eyes doesn't match up. Typically when playing man a DB isn't reading the QB. An old mantra in man to man is that if you see the ball leave the QBs hand you're gonna watch a receiver making a catch. A long winded way of saying that man corners should be watching their receiver. Looking at the QB usually happens in zone/off coverage (like cover 3) when the CBs are allowed to flat-foot read or read with a certain number of footsteps before reacting to the route.

Now if you're talking about the LBs they might have time to read the QB before trailing their TE/RB in man.

So like I said I'm curious as to the origin of your takes on Barry's D. A couple of good sources are Mark Bullock and Sam Golden.

Cheers, much better convo then other nonsense floating around anyhow.

My comments centered around what the DBs are doing, not the LBs, in case that wasn't clear. When in press man the CBs are of course pattern matching and not watching the QB. But the safeties are taught to keep their eyes on the QB in this defense. I won't judge them too much without an earnest attempt by the gameplan to get pressure on the QB.

But in general I don't think you learn too much from preseason. Nobody's gameplanning for anybody.

I do want to see players who have been knicked up show that they can move normally. And I do want to see the younger players esp Scherff and Moses continue to know their assignments and execute well with their feet. But without gameplans being brought into it, I don't know how meaningful the evaluation is.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

My comments centered around what the DBs are doing, not the LBs, in case that wasn't clear. When in press man the CBs are of course pattern matching and not watching the QB. But the safeties are taught to keep their eyes on the QB in this defense. I won't judge them too much without an earnest attempt by the gameplan to get pressure on the QB.

I'm confused by how you are using 'pattern match'. Pattern match is not used in man-to-man coverage its used in zone coverage. Pattern match is when zone defenders cover receivers passing through their zone as if it was man thereby 'matching' their pattern. Its the football equivalent of 'match-up' zone. So CBs in man aren't pattern matching they're playing straight man.

Safeties in any scheme are primarily zone defenders, so unless they are covering a receiver they are in some sort of zone (Cover 1 deep middle, Cover 2 deep half, Cover 4 deep 1/4 etc). So Safeties are always keying the QBs eyes (or helmet direction) in any scheme its not unique to Barry's.

But anyhow, like I said there is plenty to evaluate and learn about from preseason games, even from our DBs. After all a bulk of the decision making process during the training camp comes from coaches/staff evaluation of preseason film. So, we can agree to disagree.

Anyhow, I'm still curious about where you picked up your ideas about Barry's D from? And have you checked out Mark Bullock's stuff? Imo its the best Xs and Os out there when it comes the Skins.

Anyhow, I'm headed to the game now.

Cheers

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

...Id like Jarrett to get some reps with the starters.

DHall question mark is bigger after the first game

I doubt that Key will play with the first unit but he certainly looked good both in the slot and at S. I thought on the whole the second unit S were more active then the 1st unit.

DHall looked like he wasn't 100% in football shape, and I hope that's all it was knocking off some rust because Hall can play much better then he looked last game.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 30gut

But anyhow, like I said there is plenty to evaluate and learn about from preseason games, even from our DBs. After all a bulk of the decision making process during the training camp comes from coaches/staff evaluation of preseason film. So, we can agree to disagree.

Well, certainly not enough for preseason performance to be any kind of predictor for regular season success. I mean just look at the numbers. Nobody's surprised by this.

[Ruhskins]

I'm a bit torn about Gruden's decision to have RG3 throw twice a fade pattern that has not work in camp.

Part of me thinks, yes, this is what preseason is all about, practicing something difficult in a real-time game situation.

But part of me is like, let's get RG3 and the offense comfortable and practicing things that work during the preseason, especially in an area that was a challenge last year (redzone scoring).

I'm leaning more towards the latter. I'd like to see RG3 and the offense have a complete TD drive. With no gimmicks or nothing too complicated. Let's get the offense going and working.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well, certainly not enough for preseason performance to be any kind of predictor for regular season success. I mean just look at the numbers. Nobody's surprised by this.

Um okay....Although I don't see where anyone saying the above. So I'm sure no one is surprised that preseason isnt a predictor for regular season success even though no one was making the point that it was *shrugs*