Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

[DarkKnight]

Originally Posted by steveo395

Offensive line is the problem. They are good in run blocking, but the pass blocking is pretty bad...mostly Rabach and Jansen

Rabach is garbage, and gets killed up the middle, Jansen best days are behind him, and there is not solid back up for this except, draft well, .....

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

I thought I posted this before but apparently I closed my browser before I had a chance.

Anyway I feel like the problem with the all the sacks and the problem with the offense in general is the fact that we're barely trying to push the ball downfield. I realize Zorn might have a big plan and the WCO is predicated on the short pass, but how many times did we really try to throw deep last night. Once or twice, maybe more?

If my theory is correct the last few teams we've played have no respect for our deep ball. Even though we have Moss and a cannon arm in Campbell. It seems Zorn has become content with just running slants, curls, and screens. What I want to know is wheres the posts, corners, hitch n' go's (in theory a great route considering what we're doing now)? In the meantime opponents seem to feel pretty comfortable running suicide blitzes knowing we're probably going to try something short rather then making them pay deep with Cooley or Moss. In the meantime the running game suffers because teams have realzied we're not going deep and as an extension of that we can't run play action, which seems to be Zorn's prefence when it comes to going long.

In conclusion I think the key to future success is incorporating the deep ball to push defenses back. Either way I want to see the offense that beat the Cowboys, Saints, and Cardinals. Not the monstrosety (SP?) that we saw on opening night against the Giants.

Those routes were used all the time against Detroit, because we felt we could handle them upfront. Against Pittsburgh and Dallas, we've been incredibly conservative, and probably for good reason. Without Jason Campbell, this team is a coin flip to beat SEA and SF, so we have to make sure he takes fewer hits than he has the last two games.

Play action, I think, is a good middle ground for this team. Teams respect the run and if you can get the ends to crash down, we can still protect Campbell. I think we have to live off play action right now. Zorn's been putting more of it in, but not enough, IMO.

[SBXVII]

The problem is....the TTB. lol. He's not carrying his fair load.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

With JC always being told to check down, I wonder if he's doing it too much. I don't buy this, never having time to go long stuff. The line is not blocking well, I DEFINITELY agree with that, but it's a lot harder to block when you wait to throw long until later in the game because you have to because you're behind and nothing else is working. If you start throwing long occasionally early in the game, the "D" does'nt start stacking the line right away which opens up the run and shorter passes. If people on this board are saying we don't throw long because we don't have time, I would imagine DC's are saying the same thing. Makes it pretty easy to gameplan us. Whether it's completed or not you have to take a shot and you have to do it earlier than we've been doing it. Our offense is pretty easy to read right now. The Redskins don't go long. It's kinda like the lottery, you can't win if you don't play. Well you can't complete a long pass if you don't THROW a long pass. Give your quarterback and receivers a chance to make a play. We're taking that away ourselves by not attempting it. And I don't mean calling it then checking down. Throw the damn ball. That's what sends the message.

They don't have to stack the line in order to get pressure on Campbell. They can do it with just four down linemen. Hell, Pittsburgh did it with just three.

It doesn't matter how early in the game you start to throw it downfield. I've said it over and over -- Campbell is running for his life before the receivers have a chance to get deep.

Our line has allowed 14 sacks in the last three games, and when Campbell isn't sacked, he's being pelted, knocked down, and hit on just about every other throw. The line play is just plain bad. And that will cause everything on offense to stagnate.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Stacks42

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I know im going to get killed for saying it but...... Maybe Joe Bugel needs to go, not now today, but after this season. for 4-5 years it has been said that the strength of this team is the O-line, but pass protection has been an issue since hes been here.
Look how Russ Grim built the O-line in Arizona and Pittsburg for that matter. Kurt Warner has all day to throw the ball, JC has 2 maybe 3 seconds, thats just crap. Maybe its technique, I just cant believe that this issue cant or hasnt been resolved. The SKins have paid a hefty price for this line and at this point its one of the worst in pass blocking.

Why is it Joe Bugel's fault? Do you think he's not coaching them right anymore?

Isn't it more reasonable to see that we have an old offensive line that hasn't been built for the future, with aging players whose performances are deteriorating to their natural state? There's a very fine line between experienced, veteran leadership and old guys who either struggle to stay healthy or just can't play anymore.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Why is it Joe Bugel's fault? Do you think he's not coaching them right anymore?

Isn't it more reasonable to see that we have an old offensive line that hasn't been built for the future, with aging players whose performances are deteriorating to their natural state? There's a very fine line between experienced, veteran leadership and old guys who either struggle to stay healthy or just can't play anymore.

There's always gotta be a fall guy, and for some reason people would rather look at the coaches first than the talent on the field.

[irish]

Originally Posted by DarkKnight

Rabach is garbage, and gets killed up the middle, Jansen best days are behind him, and there is not solid back up for this except, draft well, .....

I think they have to play Heyer the rest of the way if for nothing else to see if he can really play in this league. Heyer may or may not be the future and they gotta see which one it is.

[redskinsgirl]

Originally Posted by BrennanBeliever

I'm not saying that Big Ben has had a flawless season by any scope of the imagination but what I am contending is that he looks more poised in the face of heavy pressure. He looks through the rush and is still finding Holmes running out routes and and Ward over the middle for 10 to 12 yard chunks with relative accuracy. Would I rather have Ben than JC at this point in the season. Absolutely. The game isn't played in the stat column.

I know the game isn't played in the stat column. My point was Big Ben isn't haven't a good season either. It hard to really compared Big Ben's poise to JC's poise when Ben has been playing longer, has a ring, and has Ward and Holmes as receivers. If JC had Holmes playing along side Moss you wouldn't even doubt JC's abiliity. Big Ben does move around a little better than JC, but JC seems to get rid of the ball a little quicker the Ben this year. Do you really think Big Ben would have done better than JC against a defense that is #1 against the pass and rushing the QB??? Harrison & Co. even had a veteran QB like McNabb looking like a rookie.

[BrunellMVP?]

there are 5 teams with fewer points scored than us:

det (0-10), STL (2,8), Cinci (1,8,1), Oak (2,8) and KC (1,9)

combined record (6,43,1)

[irish]

Originally Posted by BrunellMVP?

there are 5 teams with fewer points scored than us:

det (0-10), STL (2,8), Cinci (1,8,1), Oak (2,8) and KC (1,9)

combined record (6,43,1)

I think that Det has more TDs but less points than the Skins. If memory serves, the Skins havent cracked 30 yet this season.

This is not a good group for the Skins to be in.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by BrunellMVP?

there are 5 teams with fewer points scored than us:

det (0-10), STL (2,8), Cinci (1,8,1), Oak (2,8) and KC (1,9)

combined record (6,43,1)

wow. if not for our defense we'd be sitting right with these teams. i think this stat really shows that maybe the guys we have just aren't as good as most people think they are.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by irish

I think they have to play Heyer the rest of the way if for nothing else to see if he can really play in this league. Heyer may or may not be the future and they gotta see which one it is.

I agree. Heyer is not much of an asset in run blocking, but he's better than Jansen in pass protection and we need to see if he's a starting caliber tackle or a backup.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

They don't have to stack the line in order to get pressure on Campbell. They can do it with just four down linemen. Hell, Pittsburgh did it with just three.

It doesn't matter how early in the game you start to throw it downfield. I've said it over and over -- Campbell is running for his life before the receivers have a chance to get deep.

Our line has allowed 14 sacks in the last three games, and when Campbell isn't sacked, he's being pelted, knocked down, and hit on just about every other throw. The line play is just plain bad. And that will cause everything on offense to stagnate.

I don't know what game you were watching but the Steelers linebackers were all over Campbell. Somehow other teams find a way to move the pocket or roll quarterbacks out to buy time. They do that because their line is'nt holding back the rush. Right now we could'nt block a defensive line of cubscouts and if we don't find a way to stretch the field it's only going to get worse. Campbell hit Moss right in the hands with a pass and he dropped it. Somehow he found time to do it. It's not easy because our line sucks but to just give up trying the long ball would be offensive suicide. Why do you think we're getting so much pressure? There's been no threat of the long ball. There is no doubt it starts with the line, but we have what we have. Whether it's max protection or whatever, we better find a way to get it done. We can hardly even complete intermediate to short passes because we don't stretch the field and defenses are playing up on us. If the defensive front four were the only problem, we should be able to run draws all day long. Maybe I'm using the term long ball to much. Even intermediate, 20-30 yard passes would help tremendously. I guess what frustrates me is the attitude of , we can't do that...... well what CAN we do?

[hail_2_da_skins]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

This is a combination of line play and play calling.
If you noticed in the first month the line was playing better when the defenses didn't know what to expect because Zorn was new.
Well since then, Zorn continues to call the same exact plays regardless of opponent, thinking we can simply execute.
There were no adjustments for the Pitt defense with misdirection, screens, draws...etc
There were no adjustments for the Dallas weakness...deep passes in the secondary.

Bottom line is Zorn hasn't made any playcalling adjustments...certainly not at halftime.
And this one he had 2 weeks to plan.
It is entirely possible that this head coaching thing is taking so much of his time that he cannot dedicate to put in new plays and adjust offensive play calling as well as he should.

The lines play becomes easier if the defense is either off balance or if there is a lot of smash mouth running (since our lines strength is run blocking)
Right now, neither is going on.....how hard is it to predict a slant on 3rd and 3 anyways?

I am also getting a bit concerned on Zorn's ability to "inspire" the team for big games.
The defense seems "ok" but they dont have a killer instinct.
The offense needs a major adjustment, it has for weeks....if Pitt and Dallas after a bye doesn't result in an adjustment....I don't know what will.
Get ready for some more vanilla offense.

I've read all the posts and it seems to me that the problems scoring is all of the above. I like SKINSNUT post the best. I feel Zorn is being over matched and out coached. It seems the offense has not adjusted to our opponents. It's not happening at half time and it's not happening in the initial gameplan. The Skins seem to run the same plays irregardless of the opponent and their strategies. Take for instance this last game against the Cowboys, the Cowboy corners were playing up tight trying to take away the wide receiver hitches, screens and slants, but the Redskins continued to attempt these type of plays the whole game. ADJUST. Fake the slant route, when the cornerback commits, run the go route. It's call the SLUGO (Slant and Go). Didn't see it. The offense looks very predictable. The book is out on Jim Zorn and he is not re-writing it.

[BrunellMVP?]

There are 5 teams (with a combined record of 6-43-1) that have scored fewer points that the Redskins. While our defense has been stout, I think we proved that they are over-worked. (see marion barber v redskins D for the last 6+ mins of the game). In this league, you need to 25+ points- we haven't.

Simply put, our offense must improve. Campbell can't keep taking these long sacks, Zorn needs to be more creative and trusting, Fred Davis needs to study, Randle El needs to stop returning punts and start being apart of more gadget plays, Jason Taylor needs to be healthy, Jasen needs to remember that he's a stud, kelly needs to heal up, and Rogers needs to learn how to catch. A contending team simply does not let a rusty tony romo waltz in, throw 2 INTs and still win.

Crowd noise: I have been to each of the past 5 Redskins v Cowboys games at FedEx, all were louder than Sunday Night.

That said, I'm not giving up- but please, please don't tell me the emperor is wearing clothes when he's clearly naked.