Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by redsk1

The guy is a HOF player who had devastating injuries last year. If healthy JT could be a real beast for us. He's in great shape and is only 34. Come on guys, most were excited about this move last year. It's his contract. It's what we accepted.

Plus, regardless of how he plays this year he's going to be off the books at the end of the season. It's not a classic Snyder move where he'd be restructured for 2 more seasons to spread the cap hit.

[SmootSmack]

I like that he's coming back for another season.

-It's not up to him to decide to restructure. The Redskins should go to Taylor and his agent if they want to restructure, not the other way around. And, I don't consider myself a cap expert, but I'm sure there are good reasons for not restructuring his deal where it potentially hurts us more in the long run.

-He has no reason to ask for a pay cut. He earned his contract...by being one of the best defensive players in the league for the past decade. The fact that he was hurt last year is irrelevant to the contract he signed before he arrived.

-There seems to be a prevaling gloom and doom feeling that he's about to have a Simeon Rice like drop-off and be a worthless scrub...or he could bounce back from injury at his age and have a strong season a la Michael Strahan.

-He had one of his best seasons ever, I think he even won defensive MVP, playing a lot of linebacker back in 2006.

-I don't know what the plan is for him and Andre Carter. Carter did have some success last year when they lined him up at LDE against the Vikings. Two things to consider though, a stalwart-Daniels-was lined up on the other side and the Vikings are not really a passing threat anyway. Either way, JT showed he can still play the game during the albeit limited time he was healthy. And, like I said before, he's one of the best defensive players to play the game in the last decade and he hasn't really had any injury problems until his one injury last year. It's up to Blache, Olivadotti, and Palermo to take advantage of his incredible talents and put him in the right positions to succeed.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

I have made my peace with Taylor coming back, but i'm not happy that the team seems to have no interest in restructuring his contract or extending it to lower the cap hit. After a horrible 2008 season, the knee-jerk reaction would be to cut him, but i think keeping him is a smart move by our team. We gave up alot for him, he suffered a life-threatening injury early in the season that was difficult to recover from, and we were playing him at a position he had never played in before... so its really prudent to give Taylor a "pass" for his sub-par performance in 2008 and hope he rebounds in 2009.

Taylor is going into the season knowing it could be his last ever if he choses to retire when his current contract is up; Or, hes going into the season playing for his NEXT contract - either way, he has all the incentive in the world to play his guts out.

Also, 2009 will likely be Carters last year with the team, so having Taylor around puts us in a position where we wont have to be looking for two new DEs in 2010... if Taylor continues to play DE for us. I personally think we'll be better off in 2009 starting Evans and Carter at DE with Taylor taking Washingtons spot at OLB. Then, on passing downs, Evans can move inside and Taylor can slide down to DE.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

-He has no reason to ask for a pay cut. He earned his contract...by being one of the best defensive players in the league for the past decade. The fact that he was hurt last year is irrelevant to the contract he signed before he arrived.

There you go using blatant reasoning again! This line of thinking exists in exactly .73% of all sports fans. The rest are willing to let a guy play at all-pro level for less than he should be making but once he signs a fair deal and eventually his play drops then he is "stealing from the team". Hypocrisy at its best.

I agree with you. He earned his deal. It's on us for acquiring it. He was a great football player and maybe he still can be. One year at that salary won't kill us long term. Restructuring it to save a few mil and pushing it forward just kills us long term. In this case I'd prefer we take one year of greater risk rather than three of lesser, yet still substantial risk.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I like that he's coming back for another season.

-It's not up to him to decide to restructure. The Redskins should go to Taylor and his agent if they want to restructure, not the other way around. And, I don't consider myself a cap expert, but I'm sure there are good reasons for not restructuring his deal where it potentially hurts us more in the long run.

-He has no reason to ask for a pay cut. He earned his contract...by being one of the best defensive players in the league for the past decade. The fact that he was hurt last year is irrelevant to the contract he signed before he arrived.

-There seems to be a prevaling gloom and doom feeling that he's about to have a Simeon Rice like drop-off and be a worthless scrub...or he could bounce back from injury at his age and have a strong season a la Michael Strahan.

-He had one of his best seasons ever, I think he even won defensive MVP, playing a lot of linebacker back in 2006.

-I don't know what the plan is for him and Andre Carter. Carter did have some success last year when they lined him up at LDE against the Vikings. Two things to consider though, a stalwart-Daniels-was lined up on the other side and the Vikings are not really a passing threat anyway. Either way, JT showed he can still play the game during the albeit limited time he was healthy. And, like I said before, he's one of the best defensive players to play the game in the last decade and he hasn't really had any injury problems until his one injury last year. It's up to Blache, Olivadotti, and Palermo to take advantage of his incredible talents and put him in the right positions to succeed.

Good points.

Personally I would like to have his cap space, but we should be able to free up an ample amount with other moves.

I never agreed with flat out cutting him. When healthy and used properly he's a game changer. I'm hoping we'll turn him loose and get creative in finding ways to let him get after the QB. He was clearly handcuffed last year and of course the injuries didn't help.

[over the mountain]

i dont mind it. he plays another year, gives him a chance to bounce back, him staying negates us having to fill another starter spot, but the big thing is his contract comes off the books after next year.

i would rather look to find his replacement next year (or in this years draft).

really i just like the idea of keeping him and his contract which ends next year vs. having to go and find his replacement which would require a multi-year deal when none of the FA out there are a good long term solution.

even if we draft orapko i wouldnt want to trust him to start week 1.

go skins!!

[BigHairedAristocrat]

publically going on record saying we are keeping him also gives us more options in disguising our intentions in free agency and the draft. plus we always have the ability to trade him. Some team that grearing up for a SB run in 2009 could have a DE go down in training camp and offer us something in a trade for Taylor next year. Its not that teams werent interested in Taylor last year... Parcells was just adamant about the compensation a trade would require and we were the only team desperate enough to give him a 2nd and 6th round pick... we could easily move Taylor for a 4th if we were so linclined.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I have made my peace with Taylor coming back, but i'm not happy that the team seems to have no interest in restructuring his contract or extending it to lower the cap hit. After a horrible 2008 season, the knee-jerk reaction would be to cut him, but i think keeping him is a smart move by our team. We gave up alot for him, he suffered a life-threatening injury early in the season that was difficult to recover from, and we were playing him at a position he had never played in before... so its really prudent to give Taylor a "pass" for his sub-par performance in 2008 and hope he rebounds in 2009.

Taylor is going into the season knowing it could be his last ever if he choses to retire when his current contract is up; Or, hes going into the season playing for his NEXT contract - either way, he has all the incentive in the world to play his guts out.

Also, 2009 will likely be Carters last year with the team, so having Taylor around puts us in a position where we wont have to be looking for two new DEs in 2010... if Taylor continues to play DE for us. I personally think we'll be better off in 2009 starting Evans and Carter at DE with Taylor taking Washingtons spot at OLB. Then, on passing downs, Evans can move inside and Taylor can slide down to DE.

Very good point, I think knee-jerk reactions have gotten this team in trouble in the past (i.e. the trade for Duckett).

[53Fan]

I thought the knee-jerk reaction was to sign him for 8.5 and give up 2 draft picks for him last year when Daniels went down.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I thought the knee-jerk reaction was to sign him for 8.5 and give up 2 draft picks for him last year when Daniels went down.

Well the old Redskins would have given him a big fat new contract after trading for him a la Brandon Lloyd. Besides, only the 2nd round pick hurts in that trade.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well the old Redskins would have given him a big fat new contract after trading for him a la Brandon Lloyd. Besides, only the 2nd round pick hurts in that trade.

How do you figure? Kedrick Golston..Colt Brennan...Kareem Moore were 6th round picks and Horton was a 7th. These are not important? Plus he's taking up 8.5 in cap space for the second straight year it looks like. And the second pick? We could REALLY use that this year. I have nothing against JT. I hope we'll use him right this year so he can do what he does best but I haven't seen anything thus far to say this wasn't a bad deal. Everything right now is just based on conjecture, hoping he has a good year.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I thought the knee-jerk reaction was to sign him for 8.5 and give up 2 draft picks for him last year when Daniels went down.

General consensus was the trade was a good decision by the skins. The problem was Taylor suffered a life threatening injury, never fully recovered, and was misused by Blache. Taylor is a sure-fire firstballot hall of famer. He was 33 at the time and was coming of a great season. If Taylor had continued to be utilized correctly and performed at the same level he had been performing when in Miami, we would feel he was well worth the 2nd and 6th round pick. If he rebounds to his previous form and Blache uses him correctly, and he plays solid this year, it will still be worth the pick, especially if we can get another year or two out of him.

[53Fan]

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;529123]General consensus was the trade was a good decision by the skins. The problem was Taylor suffered a life threatening injury, never fully recovered, and was misused by Blache. Taylor is a sure-fire firstballot hall of famer. He was 33 at the time and was coming of a great season. If Taylor had continued to be utilized correctly and performed at the same level he had been performing when in Miami, we would feel he was well worth the 2nd and 6th round pick. If he rebounds to his previous form and Blache uses him correctly, and he plays solid this year, it will still be worth the pick, especially if we can get another year or two out of him.[/QUOTE]

Yeah if all the "IFS" worked out it would be a great deal. IF it does then great. IF it don't, then , OH s**t.... That's my point. So far it's been all conjecture and no production. It is what it is. Do I think JT can still be productive? Yes. IF Blache uses him the correct way. Oops...there's that word again.

[over the mountain]

In an interview on WJFK-FM, Redskins defensive end Jason Taylor was candid about his performance, which has included only 1.5 sacks and 25 tackles despite averaging around 41 snaps in 11 games.

"I'll be the first to tell you - I stink right now," he said on "The Junkies." "I may not be worth $8 million [in 2009], but I know one thing: This dog can still hunt. You put me in the right situation and right position, and I'll hunt all day."

Asked whether he's being used correctly, Taylor said: "I'm not here to complain. I'm just a player, and this is the scheme, and I have to fit into it and find a way to be successful. If I had my druthers, it is what it is."

^^ this is from an interview JT did in december. i thought there was more to him talking about how he was used, maybe it was another interview where he said he doesnt like to be one hand in the dirt all the time lined up against a tackle.

to blache's defense (haha i funny), it seems he did try to move JT around more in the last few games . . .

heres an article on blache and his view on using the front 7:

Published: December 15, 2008

Back when the Washington Redskins’ freefall was merely a slide, defensive coordinator Greg Blache got testy when he was repeatedly asked about his unit’s inability to generate sacks on opposing offenses.
They were doing just fine without the sacks, Blache replied. And at the time, they were.
Sacks, as a statistic, are overrated anyway. The success of others can lead to a sack for you, so it’s not always a true measure of individual accomplishment. Sacks do have their place.
Quarterback hurries are a more telling number. When a defensive player beats his blocker and forces the quarterback to rush a throw, that’s an individual accomplishment.
The problem for the Redskins lies in the difference between the two.
Washington falls in the middle of the league in quarterback hurries. Their 59 ties them for 14th, which doesn’t include Monday night’s Browns-Eagles game. Andre Carter leads the team with 15; Demetric Evans is second with seven. By comparison, Dallas’ DeMarcus Ware is the league leader at 27; Minnesota’s Jared Allen is second with 26.
It should be easy to see the correlation, then, that the teams with the most hurries are usually the ones with the most sacks. You can’t sack the quarterback if you can’t get to him.
There’s Dallas (90 hurries, 53 sacks, both first); Tennessee (second in hurries, seventh in sacks); Minnesota (third in both); Baltimore (fourth in hurries, 10th in sacks) and Pittsburgh (tied for fifth in hurries, second in sacks). Those teams are getting to the quarterback and taking him down.
The Redskins, meanwhile, are getting to the quarterback at an average rate. They’re taking him down at a severely reduced rate. So despite the 59 hurries, they’ve got only 21 sacks to show for it; 35.6 percent, or less than four of 10, of the Redskins’ hurries result in a sack.
While not the league’s worst, it’s in the neighborhood, where Washington lives with some of the league’s worst teams generally. Only Cincinnati, Cleveland and Kansas City have a worse conversion rate, if you will. Tampa Bay bucks the trend; despite its 38.0 percent conversion rate, the Bucs are in line for a playoff spot.
Conversely, the NFL’s better teams are near the top of the list, but not always. Oakland leads the league with a 69.2 conversion rate, though that says more about the Raiders’ woeful lack of hurries than their pedestrian 27 sacks.
Behind Oakland is a more expected list: the New York Jets, in contention in a crowded AFC East; Carolina, emerging as a potential NFC champion; resurgent Philadelphia and Miami.
That the Redskins are unable to generate pressure should not be a surprise. They have not had a dominant defensive end in the Daniel Snyder era; even when that position was a concern after last season, the Redskins paid it lip service by drafting Rob Jackson in the seventh round.
And, no matter what Blache says, it must be a concern too.
Not only does his unit fail to harass opposing quarterbacks, it fails further in capitalizing on the chances it does have.

I think JT will have a better year but am not overly optimistic blache will change the way he does things.

go skins!! sorry if this is long, i suck at providing links

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

How do you figure? Kedrick Golston..Colt Brennan...Kareem Moore were 6th round picks and Horton was a 7th. These are not important? Plus he's taking up 8.5 in cap space for the second straight year it looks like. And the second pick? We could REALLY use that this year. I have nothing against JT. I hope we'll use him right this year so he can do what he does best but I haven't seen anything thus far to say this wasn't a bad deal. Everything right now is just based on conjecture, hoping he has a good year.

Getting diamonds in the roughs in the lower round happens, but it doesn't happen all the time. Yes, we could use that 6th round this year, but having a 2nd rounder is better. You're right, everything now is based on conjecture, hoping that JT has a good year. The same thing applies I would say for these lower round picks, you hope they work out, you don't expect them to.