The line is quite offensive right now

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinster

What is with everyone and not recognizing the importance of a QB? I don't really think it's debatable that the QB is the most important piece of the team. An O-line is FIVE members. You won't fix it by getting one piece of the puzzle.

I also think manning is good, look at the numbers he is putting up with mediocre at best recievers...manningham as I think 8 drops this year. but that's a side convo not entirely on topic.

It all starts up front.

Simple as that, a new QB isn't going to solve anything until we can protect and open holes for the running game.

[nyredskinsfan]

Nothing profound or enlightening here from me.

If you don't score points you can't win.

If you don't have an offensive line you can't run the ball.

If you don't have an offensive line the QB doesn't have time to throw the ball.

Last Monday it was pretty bad when the topic of discussion on ESPN Mike and Mike was how bad the Skin's are. Missed this mornings program but I'm sure it was somewhat dwelled on.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by bertoskins2

I know few some QB's ..........rodgers, philip rivers and roetlisberger. who can still pass it even with a bad oline.
too bad JC does not have their ability.

I disagree that they would be great behind this offensive line, but that's not really the point. I guess this is you casting your vote for drafting a QB? Well, then, let's say we take a first round QB and instead of developing he gets his brains kicked in behind this line...what happens then? What is your solution then? Continue to replace the QB?

How about fixing the root cause? Get some people who can f*cking block and the offense has potential. There's no hope right now, though, because none of the QBs you listed are walking through the door.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by skinster

I get it. I know the O-Line is really important. Im just saying that a qb is more important than ONE O-lineman. What is the better combo, Joe Thomas blocking for Derek Anderson or the guy that replaced Tony Ugoh blocking for Peyton Manning?
O-line needs to be developed over time, we do need to invest in it. But while we have the shot to possibly get a QB of the future, let's take it. We can pick up O-linemen with other picks in the draft and possibly in FA, while that is unlikely to do with a QB. I do not believe our problems (on the O-line and elsewhere) can be fixed in one season. We need to build to the future, and the best single starting piece we can get to do that is a QB.

How about ten season?

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by skinster

I get it. I know the O-Line is really important. Im just saying that a qb is more important than ONE O-lineman. What is the better combo, Joe Thomas blocking for Derek Anderson or the guy that replaced Tony Ugoh blocking for Peyton Manning?
O-line needs to be developed over time, we do need to invest in it. But while we have the shot to possibly get a QB of the future, let's take it. We can pick up O-linemen with other picks in the draft and possibly in FA, while that is unlikely to do with a QB. I do not believe our problems (on the O-line and elsewhere) can be fixed in one season. We need to build to the future, and the best single starting piece we can get to do that is a QB.

What timeframe are we talking about? This is very important because next season the correct answer is "Joe Thomas blocking for Jason Campbell or Colt Brennan" because it keeps a rookie QB from getting his teeth kicked in the way Ramsey and Carr did. It's pretty hard to develop when you're taking big shots, you have to be able to protect a young QB in order for them to be good or great or even develop. So, your question is more effectively asked, "What's more important? Having Chris Samuels or having Patrick Ramsey?"

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

How about ten season?

What I meant when I said, "in one season" was "one offseason" No I think our problems are too numerous to fix by next year. I do agree that getting an O-lineman will be more beneficial for the 2010 season due to the learning curve, but I think we need to build for the future. I want a team that will win every year. A qb is the better route to go than one offensive lineman if we want to go in that direction.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinster

What I meant when I said, "in one season" was "one offseason" No I think our problems are too numerous to fix by next year. I do agree that getting an O-lineman will be more beneficial for the 2010 season due to the learning curve, but I think we need to build for the future. I want a team that will win every year. A qb is the better route to go than one offensive lineman if we want to go in that direction.

A good OL will pretty much guarantee that, even with a decent QB.

A bad OL will pretty much guarantee more of the same despite who is under center.

If you want to build for the long run, build up the OL.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by skinster

What I meant when I said, "in one season" was "one offseason" No I think our problems are too numerous to fix by next year. I do agree that getting an O-lineman will be more beneficial for the 2010 season due to the learning curve, but I think we need to build for the future. I want a team that will win every year. A qb is the better route to go than one offensive lineman if we want to go in that direction.

I think the line can be dramatically improved in one offseason. We have some parts already. Dock is fine. I think Mike Williams could be an effective guard with his size and pass protection ability and Levi Jones may still have something left in the tank (we will know by the end of the season). One or two effective free agents and two good draft picks and we can be right where we need to be.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by skinster

What I meant when I said, "in one season" was "one offseason" No I think our problems are too numerous to fix by next year. I do agree that getting an O-lineman will be more beneficial for the 2010 season due to the learning curve, but I think we need to build for the future. I want a team that will win every year. A qb is the better route to go than one offensive lineman if we want to go in that direction.

Listen to the voices of reason.

[Son Of Man]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

This line has it's problems across the board, but in all fairness to Williams I think he's played fairly well the last two weeks at R/T. The real problem areas on the line right now are at C/RG/LT. I've had my nocks trained on the RT for the last two weeks since Williams has been inserted, he is not the problem.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Williams is has had solid outings the last couple of games. I'm waiting till the end of the season to see if RT is a huge a need as we think. Regardless, if we end up with a top 5 pick, we should draft Okung....then trade back into the late 1st round and take Colt McCoy (future Aaron Rogers).

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

I think the line can be dramatically improved in one offseason. We have some parts already. Dock is fine. I think Mike Williams could be an effective guard with his size and pass protection ability and Levi Jones may still have something left in the tank (we will know by the end of the season). One or two effective free agents and two good draft picks and we can be right where we need to be.

Mike williams is not an effective gaurd. Levi Jones might be an adequate band aid to one position. Two good draft picks with one to two good free agents is too much to bank on. We can't naturally assume we will hit on our players that we choose. Too many "what ifs" and not enough time to develop chemistry. It seems to be a one in a hundred shot. Realistically we can get an adequate O-line next year if we disregard all other positions, but would be only semi-fixing one of many problems.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Pocket$ Straight:

If Williams and Jones are so competent, how come 32 NFL teams allowed them to languish in a state of idleness for several years? Are you telling me that no team in the league faced serious problems with the competency of its OL in the last three years? Or maybe the Skins' FO was the only organization smart enough to track down these lost souls?


These guys were unmitigated busts as high draft pick. Now MAYBE they have reformed some of their habits such that they MIGHT become serviceable NFL players. But to see these guys turning into foundation pieces for an NFL team probably requires a visit from the Skins' Fairy Godmother.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Pocket$ Straight:

If Williams and Jones are so competent, how come 32 NFL teams allowed them to languish in a state of idleness for several years? Are you telling me that no team in the league faced serious problems with the competency of its OL in the last three years? Or maybe the Skins' FO was the only organization smart enough to track down these lost souls?


These guys were unmitigated busts as high draft pick. Now MAYBE they have reformed some of their habits such that they MIGHT become serviceable NFL players. But to see these guys turning into foundation pieces for an NFL team probably requires a visit from the Skins' Fairy Godmother.

I don't think he was saying they would build around them as much as those guys may be able to maintain a spot for a year or two as young draft picks are brought in.

A good example of rebuilding an o line in 1 year is our rival pokes; a few years ago they overpaid Leonard Davis, a career underachiever at OT, and moved him to guard. They picked up Mark Colombo & he resurrected his career as their RT after he was pretty much a bust 2nd rounder in chicago. They already had a good LT (penalties aside) & C (shotgun snapping aside). Their LG spot has been a problem w/Kosier et al, but they have been pretty solid as a unit, great run blockers at least. Sure they've had troulbe in pass pro v. the better pass rushers, but they transformed that unit quickly & have had some explosive offensive years since.

[Son Of Man]

Originally Posted by bertoskins2

I know few some QB's ..........rodgers, philip rivers and roetlisberger. who can still pass it even with a bad oline.
too bad JC does not have their ability.

SPOT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big Ben won the Super Bowl with one of the worst lines in football. Ben was a 1st Round draft pick!!!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

SPOT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big Ben won the Super Bowl with one of the worst lines in football. Ben was a 1st Round draft pick!!!

So was JC and Ramsey before him.