Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

We give him one or two years, he bolts to Tennessee for sure since they gave him three. Not to mention we might have had to pay extra to pry him away from his the OC there, since he's had a relationship with his OC since he was a little kid.

Maybe that's the case, but I refuse to believe Grossman and Beck were the best we could have done. Add in the McNabb debacle and you really have to question the decision making that's been done with the QB position, especially for a QB "guru" like Mike Shanahan.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Maybe that's the case, but I refuse to believe Grossman and Beck were the best we could have done. Add in the McNabb debacle and you really have to question the decision making that's been done with the QB position, especially for a QB "guru" like Mike Shanahan.

It may not, but the alternatives were not that good. Maybe Garcia, Gradkowski, Bulger, Orton? There are too many to list, but the scrapheap QBs don't look that good. We might be sitting at 5-4 or 4-5 and be in the running for 8-8.

But you also have to consider that a FA QB this season would be very behind due to lockout. Unlike Carson Palmer, he probably would have not had any previous contact with Shanahan. Hence, the pickup might struggle in a manner similar to how Kerry Collins struggled.

Here's a fairly comprehensive list to look at: KFFL - 2010 NFL Free Agents

[Beemnseven]

The larger point is that any quarterback would have struggled with this supporting cast.

And I don't know that Mike Shanahan's status as a quarterback guru was necessarily a given. Like everybody else in this league, he was right on some guys, wrong on others. I'd say Cutler has turned out to be as good as advertised. He created the environment for Elway to get over the hump, and perhaps made him a more complete QB.

With Beck, I just think you had to see what he could do. We saw it. He won't cut it. Does that mean Mike Shanahan has lost it? I don't think so. Maybe he knows that it's early in the rebuild process and for the first year or so he wanted to try some things out knowing that if they don't work, it won't matter much because this team was being dismantled from the top-down anyway.

[MTK]

Before all these injuries I'd argue this offense had some potential, and with a competent QB we could have been more competitive. Right now given all the injuries we'd probably be in a somewhat similar situation, but when I see Grossman throwing dumb pick after dumb pick or Beck dumping it off every play or getting sacked, I can't help but wonder.

In the end Shanahan is 0-3 on his QB choices here. Not good any way you look at it.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Before all these injuries I'd argue this offense had some potential, and with a competent QB we could have been more competitive. Right now given all the injuries we'd probably be in a somewhat similar situation, but when I see Grossman throwing dumb pick after dumb pick or Beck dumping it off every play or getting sacked, I can't help but wonder.

In the end Shanahan is 0-3 on his QB choices here. Not good any way you look at it.

Yes, with a more competent QB, the offense would have better.

But I think it's quite clear that their pickings were slim and would have been pretty big gambles in their own right, i.e AJ Feeley, Bulger, Leinart, TJax, Troy Smith. More likely than not, we'd be killing Shanahan if one of those guys were starting instead of Brecks.

[Beemnseven]

But would this mystery QB that Shanahan didn't choose be the quarterback of the future for this team? Would it have been yet another short-term fix? Yeah, it might make us feel better in the here and now, get us a few more wins -- again, in an alternate reality that (1.) doesn't have the injury problem we have, (2.) has a magically transformed offensive line that Shanahan hasn't had the time to build, (3.) has dynamic wide receivers to throw to, and (4.) has an effective running game.

I maintain that under these exact circumstances any other quarterback taken over the past two offseasons couldn't possibly make the results any different, and that the franchise quarterback we're all hoping for is playing in college right now and wasn't available to Shanahan anyway.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Yes, with a more competent QB, the offense would have better.

But I think it's quite clear that their pickings were slim and would have been pretty big gambles in their own right, i.e AJ Feeley, Bulger, Leinart, TJax, Troy Smith. More likely than not, we'd be killing Shanahan if one of those guys were starting instead of Brecks.

Exactly right. It's not like there was a Pro Bowl quarterback sitting out there on the free agent scrapheap and Shanny wasn't able to spot him.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Exactly right. It's not like there was a Pro Bowl quarterback sitting out there on the free agent scrapheap and Shanny wasn't able to spot him.

Marc Bulger was a Pro Bowl quarterback .


Oh ohhhhhh you mean a recent Pro Bowl qb.

[SmootSmack]

Maybe Shanahan feels that given his knowledge and experience with QBs he could save that for last while focusing on other areas that needed improvement first?

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by mooby

Marc Bulger was a Pro Bowl quarterback .


Oh ohhhhhh you mean a recent Pro Bowl qb.

I think Bulger would have this team 5-4 or 4-5 and having us smelling 8-8...if his last few years in St. Louis didn't give him happy feet and the like. But he had no upside. The best Bulger would give next year would either be the same or worse that he would have given this year.
I think Shanahan wanted to test out guys with some upside. He probably thought these guys had the best chance to turn into the second coming of Gannon...or at least something serviceable like Plummer. He probably deluded himself a bit, but I don't hold that too hard against him. It happens to everyone.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Unaccustomed as I am to being a voice of sweetness and light, I will say that I think the Redskins are on a much better path today than they were 2 years ago. They have not arrived at the end of the path (playoff contender on a regular basis) and the path is not level and paved every step of the way.

But this one is a better path than existed at the time Allen and Shanahan came to town. They conducted two drafts and two off-seasons. They did not hit home-runs with every draft pick, but they acquired good contributors in addition to two players who might turn out to be excellent (Williams and Kerrigan). Most importantly, they did not succumb to the temptation to spend a ton of money to bring in high-priced free agents whose major motivation in coming here was to get paid and sit on their fat wallets. That was the path this team was on for about 10 years prior to Allen/Shanahan...

Just because that is the way Allen/Shanahan behaved in their two off-seasons, I think the path they are on now is far better than the one the Skins were on 2 years ago.

Yes, the McNabb trade blew up in their face. However, that is not an indictment of the strategic path they have the team on. That is the failure of a tactical move they made. Another tactical failure was the blunderous way that Shanahan handled the "McNabb situation" last year. That could not have helped solidify the idea that "we are all in this together" among players in the locker room and it will take a bit of time to get that stink out of there.

The team has a lot of picks this year in the draft - - and might get more if they compensatory ones for losing free agents to other teams. Let me assume they have 10 picks in the draft as an example. If that is the case, then the real test of the path that the team is on will be to see how well the Redskins' scouting department can come up with good value picks in at least 7 of those 10 selections.

The path of "build through the draft and make judicious use of free agency" is a good path to follow. HOWEVER, it is the scouting department that has to deliver a solid draft board year after year in order for that path to get you to the playoffs.

To be polite, the Skins drafts of the years from about 2002 - 2008 left a whole lot to be desired. Was that the fault of the owner/GM - - or was it the scouting department? Starting two years ago, the owner butted out of the draft and the GM/coach are reputedly good at team building, so the spotlight now is on the scouts.

I am indicting the strategic path they are on. The tactical moves have been hit and miss, like most teams. The Kerrigans, Banks, Hankersons, Roccas are all hits at this point. There has been about 15-20 personnel "misses" in the last year in a half, from retentions to releases, from start/sit decisions to acquisitions. That's been a significant part of the recent failures, but a stretch like that could happen to any team. The Patriots probably have 10+ personnel whiffs in the last two years.

The reasoning for taking the path we had has been incredibly suspect the whole way. There's never been a clear vision for success, which is why Mike Shanahan goes into pressers and says asinine things. The Redskins have managed to win more small battles under Allen/Shanahan than they did under Cerrato/Zorn (except on the field), but the war is still being fought against themselves. The Redskins can't get out of their way long enough to make positive progress.

Now, I am taking a wait and see approach as to what good has come out of the last two years. I don't think the Redskins need to clean house. I do think they need to change some or all of the on-field staff to improve the product. But I think Allen should stay, I think the top executives should stay, and I think Allen should promote or hire a chief player personnel VP to report directly to him that isn't on the coaching staff.

Shanahan's contract explicitly states that he's entitled to all the money in the deal and can walk if the Redskins do that, which is why he's the giant obstacle in this.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Before all these injuries I'd argue this offense had some potential, and with a competent QB we could have been more competitive. Right now given all the injuries we'd probably be in a somewhat similar situation, but when I see Grossman throwing dumb pick after dumb pick or Beck dumping it off every play or getting sacked, I can't help but wonder.

In the end Shanahan is 0-3 on his QB choices here. Not good any way you look at it.

TH was on pace for a VERY good season.. Injuries happen it seems like other teams always bounce back and we always have that same excuse... Look at dallas Murray comes in and rolls over Felix..

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

TH was on pace for a VERY good season.. Injuries happen it seems like other teams always bounce back and we always have that same excuse... Look at dallas Murray comes in and rolls over Felix..

Well, if they had stuck with Rex and put Helu in right away..........we might have stole one of the two previous games. Instead, we were absolutely non-competitive with the Dormant Mormon.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

This fire shanahan stuff is nonsense. Firing Shanahan would almost certainly involve Snyder bringing Cerrato back in some capacity. I think both Shanahans need to stay here atleast 3 years before firing is even in the discussion.

Why would firing the gruesome twosome Mike and Kyle = return of the cokehead? Allen doesn't have any particular connection to Mike so there's no reason for him to get the boot or resign.

[skinsfaninok]

Yeah the beck move killed us and it seemed like the team didn't have much faith in the guy either