Cheney treated like others, angry about it

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

This is a little off topic, but I don't think the government has any right to be involved in marriages ... as if people need the government's permission to get married. Wasn't the separation of church and state a fundamental reason for the establishment of America? Just another case of the government abusing it's power.

What the founding fathers envisioned of the so-called 'separation of church and state' and what people believe it to be today are two completely different things.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

This is a little off topic, but I don't think the government has any right to be involved in marriages ... as if people need the government's permission to get married. Wasn't the separation of church and state a fundamental reason for the establishment of America? Just another case of the government abusing it's power.

Seems to me the answer to the whole marriage issue is just that. The gov should get out of the marriage busniess all together. No telling one group they can't marry and no recognizing marriage in any way other than a religious thing.

Get rid of 'legal marriage' and simply institute some type of civil union. A union between any two people or whatever sex and or relationship. Give it the current tax benefits of legal marriage and have a nice day. Move on to something else more important like sealing our borders to terrorists.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

What the founding fathers envisioned of the so-called 'separation of church and state' and what people believe it to be today are two completely different things.

They didn't envision anything like 'separation' as most believe. In fact they didn't believe in separation at all. They believed in no state sponsorship of religion. IE: no national religion and no government telling you it is better to be one religion or another. That has been interpretted to mean no support at all of religion in any way which I would say is a little overboard.

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

They didn't envision anything like 'separation' as most believe. In fact they didn't believe in separation at all. They believed in no state sponsorship of religion. IE: no national religion and no government telling you it is better to be one religion or another. That has been interpretted to mean no support at all of religion in any way which I would say is a little overboard.

Bingo, bongo.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

Here's the video. The topic at hand arises at 2:25.
YouTube - Cheney Spars with Blitzer Over Criticism of Iraq,

Cheney handled the situation, very well IMO. He didn't blow his top like some would lead you to believe.

herein lies the differences of the 2 parties. the republican machine wallows in arrogance, thinking that their policies are good enough for everyone but them. they seem to believe they are above the common folk, i.e. the wiretapping, and checking into your own personal finances. and even when mistakes are made, the blame is almost always shifted to someone else( scooter Libby?)

[FRPLG]

Actually to be a little more factual:

they = the majority of them

There were of course those believed that religion was a total no-no. But ultimately the constitution was written to reflect the majority of the opinion that religion was good but not a state thing to run.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by dmek25

herein lies the differences of the 2 parties. the republican machine wallows in arrogance, thinking that their policies are good enough for everyone but them. they seem to believe they are above the common folk, i.e. the wiretapping, and checking into your own personal finances. and even when mistakes are made, the blame is almost always shifted to someone else( scooter Libby?)

I don't want to argue political beliefs because I think we can safely assume we don't agree on a lot.

I would submit though that to label an entire party in such a way is EXACTLY what the problem is in this country. It is socially and politically irresponsible to label an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. I tend to agree with Republicans. And I tend to think that a lot of the ideas coming from the democrats just won't work. I think there are a lot of dishonest democrats. I think there are a lot of stupid democrats. I think there are a lot of reprehensible democrats. But I don't think DEMOCRATS or the party in general are dumb, dishonest and/or reprehensible. There are a lot of democrats who are good people and even have good ideas. There are thousands in fact running our local and state governments. So please don't throw republicans under the bus. Throw Bush and his cronies under the bus all you want for they have brought it on themselves but there are a lot more people like me who'd like to see the whole process fixed so that it is no longer such a battle between two sides.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Right. These past two elections have done nothing more than divide the country. The university I work at is mainly made up of republicans, and are "proud" of their republicaness to the point that they go out of their way to make sure that anyone who is a democrat or has democratic ideals looks stupid or wrong.

Prior to these two elections, I don't remember the country being nearly as divided. While I don't align myself with any particular party, I lean a bit towards the democratic side of issues. It's probably why I like Obama so much. He's a moderate and seems to want to do his damnedest to rise above party lines and do what's right for the country.

[cpayne5]

I too believe that political parties cause a lot of undue rifts among the American people, but I also believe that it is too utopien to believe that dissolution of said parties is possible.

The original dubya (George Washington) spoke of his disdain towards political parties in his farewell speech in 1796.

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Right. These past two elections have done nothing more than divide the country. The university I work at is mainly made up of republicans, and are "proud" of their republicaness to the point that they go out of their way to make sure that anyone who is a democrat or has democratic ideals looks stupid or wrong.

So I guess that means that for every 10000 left-leaning universities, there is one right-leaning.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

The one I went to was fairly divided, as were most of the ones in the area of mine. This particular one has a divide of something like 98% republican, 2% democrat.

I'm not bashing one group of another. If this was a super democrat campus totally shitting on everything republican, I would be equally as pissed. Just pointing out that these two elections have done nothing besides drive people further and further apart.

[dmek25]

i need to clarify. not all republicans reek of arrogance. but this administration has gone out of its way to promote do as i say, not as i do. and we never make any mistakes, ever

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i need to clarify. not all republicans reek of arrogance. but this administration has gone out of its way to promote do as i say, not as i do. and we never make any mistakes, ever

I'd agree with that totally.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

The one I went to was fairly divided, as were most of the ones in the area of mine. This particular one has a divide of something like 98% republican, 2% democrat.

I'm not bashing one group of another. If this was a super democrat campus totally shitting on everything republican, I would be equally as pissed. Just pointing out that these two elections have done nothing besides drive people further and further apart.

Maybe because the Dems never admitted to loosing an election and has done everting to go after this aministration with the help of the liberal press.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Maybe because the Dems never admitted to loosing an election and has done everting to go after this aministration with the help of the liberal press.

the same way the republican congress, with the help of conservative media(like fox news) went after bill clinton? there is always tit for tat. if the country is doing good, no matter who is in office, they should get the credit. same thing if things arent so good