Could Holmgren Be the End Game?

[RMSkins]

I wouldn't mind this scenario, and it would most likely mean that Cerrato is gone.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by celts32

I would love to have him in a Parcels type role as President but I am not on board with firing Zorn. Holmgren in charge of the whole organization and helping to mentor Zorn on the side would be a great situation.

Zorn is toast, unless he can perform miracles against the Eagles and 49ers. Why the hell do folks want to keep Zorn so bad? Continuity for continuity's sake has been done before. That is why we got stuck with Norv for 10 years. Do you fools want to get stuck with going 7-9 to 8-8 every year? His system is passe, and it has been figured out as a result of the WCO being featured by too many teams in the last 20 years. Also, what guy comes out in front of the press and tells them he must be the worst HC in the NFL? Stick a fork in the poor bastard. And why do you want Holmgren to come here to mentor Zorn(assuming Zorn somehow stays)? He had a short, but very sweet run with Brett and the Pack and a few good years with Seattle when Alexander was worth something as a RB. After that the Seahawks have sucked. Only thing that has kept them afloat is they are in the crappiest division in the NFL. According to ESPN a couple nights ago talking about coaches on the hot seat with the info they talked about with regards to Zorn, he looks like he is going to be in the unemployment line soon. Can't believe folks want to keep Zorn if Cowher looks like he is the heir apparent.

[Skins4L]

"Can't believe folks want to keep Zorn if Cowher looks like he is the heir apparent"

Good Call Gus. I dont know either.

If anything lets hold Zorn as QB Coach to develop Campbell...because thats the only positive things hes done.
Is it possible for Zorn to JUST be QB Coach? ah.. probally not.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Zorn is toast, unless he can perform miracles against the Eagles and 49ers. Why the hell do folks want to keep Zorn so bad? Continuity for continuity's sake has been done before. That is why we got stuck with Norv for 10 years. Do you fools want to get stuck with going 7-9 to 8-8 every year? His system is passe, and it has been figured out as a result of the WCO being featured by too many teams in the last 20 years. Also, what guy comes out in front of the press and tells them he must be the worst HC in the NFL? Stick a fork in the poor bastard. And why do you want Holmgren to come here to mentor Zorn(assuming Zorn somehow stays)? He had a short, but very sweet run with Brett and the Pack and a few good years with Seattle when Alexander was worth something as a RB. After that the Seahawks have sucked. Only thing that has kept them afloat is they are in the crappiest division in the NFL. According to ESPN a couple nights ago talking about coaches on the hot seat with the info they talked about with regards to Zorn, he looks like he is going to be in the unemployment line soon. Can't believe folks want to keep Zorn if Cowher looks like he is the heir apparent.

We have no idea what Zorn can do because he has only had 1 year. Thinking like that you would have fired Joe Gibbs in 1981...not that i am saying Zorn will ever be Gibbs. I think the Redskins biggest problems are in the front office and having an experienced guy like Holmgren there would help.

And what makes everyone think Cohwer will be so great with his next team? Is he going to bring the whole Pittsburgh front office with him? And Cowher is a pipe dream anyway because he will never work with Vinny as his personel man. Besides if Cohwer wanted the Redskins coaching job he would have taken it last year.

[RedskinMike]

Originally Posted by celts32

We have no idea what Zorn can do because he has only had 1 year. Thinking like that you would have fired Joe Gibbs in 1981...not that i am saying Zorn will ever be Gibbs. I think the Redskins biggest problems are in the front office and having an experienced guy like Holmgren there would help.

And what makes everyone think Cohwer will be so great with his next team? Is he going to bring the whole Pittsburgh front office with him? And Cowher is a pipe dream anyway because he will never work with Vinny as his personel man. Besides if Cohwer wanted the Redskins coaching job he would have taken it last year.

gibbs went 8-8 his first year but finished strong winning 8 out of 11 zorn has done the opposite and i think the strong start was due to there being no film on him no the book is out

[SBXVII]

How is it all of a sudden now we hear that Holmgren is Snyders boy? Snyder wanted Gibbs when he bought the team and Gibbs said no. Gibbs comes back and Cowher retires. Snyder tries for Cowher because supposedly Snyder likes him and respects him and is..."his boy." Now we hear rumblings about Holmgren?
Wasn't Cowher a defensive coach? or am I wrong. We could keep Zorn if he chooses to stay by simply making Cowher HC and keeping Zorn for OC and QB and runing the offensive side of the ball. The big question is would Zorn step back and say I'd rather just be a OC all the other stuff was to much? and even saying, I was impressed with Zorn for 8 games of the season, I am not impressed with the latter 8 games of the season and how he can't adjust his offense to create wins. I'm not impressed with how he can't adjust his offense during half time in order to pull out a win. Hell at this point I'm more impressed with the fact that Spurrier was able to do more of these things and lose then Zorn. So unless he lights it up the last two games and shows he can make adjustments and make this system work somehow.....I can see him being let go or someone being hired to tutor him....perhaps it's Holmgren, but Holmgren is not Snyders boy....we all know that's Cowher. If he can get him he will get him. No matter the cost.
As someone else pointed out. This team is probubly the best team for him to want to come to. He would not coach a team that is a rival to Pitt. It would make him look bad. So Cincy's out as well as the Browns. He would be stupid to work for the Raiders which he's not. As long as I've lived I can't remember Detroit ever having a winning record. lol. So Detroits out. I'm not sure of any other teams who would be looking. Keep in mind his daughter supposedly went to a school near by. This would enable him to see more of her games and be more active in her life. Something stated before also.

and Celts, as for the "Snyder tried to get Cowher and Cowher said no" ....Cowher was sticking to his time limit he claimed he would take as well as his other responsibilities to networks. He said something like I'm taking 2-3 yrs off. This would be the year he would be coming back according to his original wording. I believe because he probably made a promise to his wife or something and second kid not to move them out of the schools they were in. I thought he had a younger daughter who would be graduating HS. about now. could be wrong.

[MTK]

I've asked this before, maybe someone can help me out. Has a HC ever lost his job and stayed on as OC somewhere? People drop that idea like it's a common thing in the NFL. I've just never heard of such a thing being a reality.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

How is it all of a sudden now we hear that Holmgren is Snyders boy? Snyder wanted Gibbs when he bought the team and Gibbs said no. Gibbs comes back and Cowher retires. Snyder tries for Cowher because supposedly Snyder likes him and respects him and is..."his boy." Now we hear rumblings about Holmgren?
Wasn't Cowher a defensive coach? or am I wrong. We could keep Zorn if he chooses to stay by simply making Cowher HC and keeping Zorn for OC and QB and runing the offensive side of the ball. The big question is would Zorn step back and say I'd rather just be a OC all the other stuff was to much? and even saying, I was impressed with Zorn for 8 games of the season, I am not impressed with the latter 8 games of the season and how he can't adjust his offense to create wins. I'm not impressed with how he can't adjust his offense during half time in order to pull out a win. Hell at this point I'm more impressed with the fact that Spurrier was able to do more of these things and lose then Zorn. So unless he lights it up the last two games and shows he can make adjustments and make this system work somehow.....I can see him being let go or someone being hired to tutor him....perhaps it's Holmgren, but Holmgren is not Snyders boy....we all know that's Cowher. If he can get him he will get him. No matter the cost.
As someone else pointed out. This team is probubly the best team for him to want to come to. He would not coach a team that is a rival to Pitt. It would make him look bad. So Cincy's out as well as the Browns. He would be stupid to work for the Raiders which he's not. As long as I've lived I can't remember Detroit ever having a winning record. lol. So Detroits out. I'm not sure of any other teams who would be looking. Keep in mind his daughter supposedly went to a school near by. This would enable him to see more of her games and be more active in her life. Something stated before also.

Danny went for Cowher last year becuase he was the biggest name with the biggest list of accomplishments. Cowher wanted control, Snyder said no (because he's a control freak and attached to Vinny), so Cowher said see ya.

All these people who automatically think Zorn would accept a demotion after one season are crazy. Why is this being suggested so much around here? It simply doesn't happen in the NFL. No one expected much more than a 7-9 or 8-8 record out of Zorn in year 1. That's what he's going to deliver, despite having to implement a brand new offense and work with many coaches with whom he had no previous experience. He had never even been a coordinator, did anyone really think there wouldn't be road bumps??

I wouldn't say the Browns are out for The Chin. Cowher played for, then coached for the Browns long before he had any affiliation to Pittsburgh. Marty Schottenheimer coached the Cheifs for a long time, then went to divsion-rival San Deigo. There's a long list of stuff like this. It wouldn't make Cowher look bad at all to go back to his roots. The only bitter people would be Steelers fans, however the Steelers may be better off now than they were with Cowher. Mike Tomlin is doing a fantastic job (albeit with Dick LeBeau's help) in Pitt.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I've asked this before, maybe someone can help me out. Has a HC ever lost his job and stayed on as OC somewhere? People drop that idea like it's a common thing in the NFL. I've just never heard of such a thing being a reality.

Closest example of that is Dave Campo. Head Coach until Parcels arrived after 2002 then took a position as secondary coach this year.

[SBXVII]

Matty, I'm only suggesting cause I'm looking for your exact question to be answered. I don't think it's ever happened. I also don't think Zorn would take being demoted. or would the league allow a demotion.

[SBXVII]

GM, I had no idea of the whole control thing. I understood it to be Snyder asked if he would take the job and Cowher said no he wanted to sit out one more year plus he had commitments to the networks.

I have to be honest. I can't imagine any coach taking a job he is not going to have 100% control, other then a new coach looking for a promotion. I think it's ok for Snyder to want to have input as to who should be hired or let go or how much money to spend on any given player but other wise allow the coach to assemble his team. Allow the coach to evaluate the players. Allow the coach to pick the players he needs in the draft. All his input should be is a bonified suggestion. I know , I know its his business , his toy, his play thing, but if he wants a winning team he has to let go of the passifier.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

GM, I had no idea of the whole control thing. I understood it to be Snyder asked if he would take the job and Cowher said no he wanted to sit out one more year plus he had commitments to the networks.

I have to be honest. I can't imagine any coach taking a job he is not going to have 100% control, other then a new coach looking for a promotion. I think it's ok for Snyder to want to have input as to who should be hired or let go or how much money to spend on any given player but other wise allow the coach to assemble his team. Allow the coach to evaluate the players. Allow the coach to pick the players he needs in the draft. All his input should be is a bonified suggestion. I know , I know its his business , his toy, his play thing, but if he wants a winning team he has to let go of the passifier.

Well, Parcells did it in Dallas. I remember him being interviewed while he was still with ESPN right before he took the Dallas job. When asked how he'd like not having full control of personnel, Parcells said, "I don't need that."

I think there are more coaches than we think who are willing to cede personnel decisions to someone else. Whether they'd want to work here is another matter.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

GM, I had no idea of the whole control thing. I understood it to be Snyder asked if he would take the job and Cowher said no he wanted to sit out one more year plus he had commitments to the networks.

I have to be honest. I can't imagine any coach taking a job he is not going to have 100% control, other then a new coach looking for a promotion. I think it's ok for Snyder to want to have input as to who should be hired or let go or how much money to spend on any given player but other wise allow the coach to assemble his team. Allow the coach to evaluate the players. Allow the coach to pick the players he needs in the draft. All his input should be is a bonified suggestion. I know , I know its his business , his toy, his play thing, but if he wants a winning team he has to let go of the passifier.

SB- I don't know if it went down the exact way I said it, however I do know that Snyder apparently reached out to him, and from what I understand Cowher's lack of interest stemmed from two things: he wanted more time away from the game, and if he was to return he wanted full control.

[celts32]

To suggest Cowher you have to first believe that Snyder will fire VC...one can't happen without the other.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I've asked this before, maybe someone can help me out. Has a HC ever lost his job and stayed on as OC somewhere? People drop that idea like it's a common thing in the NFL. I've just never heard of such a thing being a reality.

Gunther Cunningham, but it wasn't like a demotion. It was a firing, then a re-hiring like three years later.