Mark Brunell, Phillip Daniels, Renaldo Wynn, Shawn Springs

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

My plan would be along the lines of SC's.

Cut either Wynn or Daniels, only get rid of Brunell if we can find a capable #2, restructure Springs. I'd also add the cutting of Hall.

Welp, I'd keep Brunell, because I think Brunell is a team guy and he said he would restructure, and he really dosent have a ton of options. He said he would only go elsewhere if he could start (and thats not happening) and said the only place he would be content as a backup is DC. I actually hope we keep Brunell, since it will be a backup situation.

As far as Wynn vs Daniels, its really a no brainer that Daniels is the better player at this point. I really like both guys, and I really really like Wynn, but he's just not that good of a player at this point in his career.

Springs I wouldnt get rid of under any circumstnace yet, unless we sign two CB's, one being Clements.

[sportscurmudgeon]

amorentz:

I did not know about the profootballtalk.com use of Stewart as the emoodiment of an average QB. I was just thinking of a QB that I thought was no better than average and Stewart came to mind. From there, it wasn't hard to find his career QB Rating. And it's damned close to Collins'.


skinsfan69:

If you think Brunell is too old to get it done, why is Collins so much more capable. Collins was born in 1971; you can to the math there; he'll be 36 this year. Granted Brunell makes a whole lot more than Collins and so he takes up more cap room. BUT, you have to admit that Brunell has earned those extra dollars because he's actually led teams deep into the playoffs in his career. Collins may have done that too if he ever had the chance; but then again he was never good enough to convince a coaching staff that he was.


Beemnsevem:

The Skins really didn't want to keep Champ all that much. The reason I say that is that if they had given him the same contract offer that they gave Portis, Bailey would have taken it. What they gave Portis was about what Champ was asking but the Skins were not willing to pay. That last statement is not meant to bad-mouth Portis in any way. It is simply to observe that the Skins had the money and the cap room to pay a player that kind of money and they did not want to give it to Champ but did want to give it to Portis. The team made a choice here; the trade was not forced upon them.


Matty:

Agree with you that cutting Hall makes a whole lot of sense ... so long as Redskins One doesn't go charging off to sign Van der Jagt!

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Beemnsevem:

The Skins really didn't want to keep Champ all that much. The reason I say that is that if they had given him the same contract offer that they gave Portis, Bailey would have taken it. What they gave Portis was about what Champ was asking but the Skins were not willing to pay. That last statement is not meant to bad-mouth Portis in any way. It is simply to observe that the Skins had the money and the cap room to pay a player that kind of money and they did not want to give it to Champ but did want to give it to Portis. The team made a choice here; the trade was not forced upon them.

Well then, that does change things. I was always under the impression that Champ wanted out. Of course, maybe he still did - but I didn't know that Portis signed for what Champ was asking.

But here's the ultimate question: would this team have been better served by Champ rather than Portis? I've always maintained that unless you're talking LaDanian Tomlinson, any team can get by with just about any running back.

So then, yet another f*** up by this front office.

[SmootSmack]

Champ wanted out

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Champ wanted out

At least, that's what we hope.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

amorentz:

I did not know about the profootballtalk.com use of Stewart as the emoodiment of an average QB. I was just thinking of a QB that I thought was no better than average and Stewart came to mind. From there, it wasn't hard to find his career QB Rating. And it's damned close to Collins'.


skinsfan69:

If you think Brunell is too old to get it done, why is Collins so much more capable. Collins was born in 1971; you can to the math there; he'll be 36 this year. Granted Brunell makes a whole lot more than Collins and so he takes up more cap room. BUT, you have to admit that Brunell has earned those extra dollars because he's actually led teams deep into the playoffs in his career. Collins may have done that too if he ever had the chance; but then again he was never good enough to convince a coaching staff that he was.


Beemnsevem:

The Skins really didn't want to keep Champ all that much. The reason I say that is that if they had given him the same contract offer that they gave Portis, Bailey would have taken it. What they gave Portis was about what Champ was asking but the Skins were not willing to pay. That last statement is not meant to bad-mouth Portis in any way. It is simply to observe that the Skins had the money and the cap room to pay a player that kind of money and they did not want to give it to Champ but did want to give it to Portis. The team made a choice here; the trade was not forced upon them.


Matty:

Agree with you that cutting Hall makes a whole lot of sense ... so long as Redskins One doesn't go charging off to sign Van der Jagt!

I'm not saying Collins should be the back-up. I would bring in someone to compete w/ Collins for the back-up job.

Collins does not have the mileage that Brunell has. Brunell has a list of injuries over the years that I think has done him in. His last year in Jack. he had an elbow injury to his throwing arm. Every year that he has been in a Redskin uniform he has had some type of injury. Now he's coming off MAJOR shoulder surgery. Time to turn the page!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The point is we know what Brunell can do. It's over for the guy. He just looks old when he's playing. He can't avoid the rush, he can't throw it deep. What does he do that's good at this point of his career? Nothing.

Right--because throwing it deep and avoiding the rush are the only two qualities that make a good QB.

Anybody got Ryan Leaf's number?

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I'm not saying Collins should be the back-up. I would bring in someone to compete w/ Collins for the back-up job.

Collins does not have the mileage that Brunell has. Brunell has a list of injuries over the years that I think has done him in. His last year in Jack. he had an elbow injury to his throwing arm. Every year that he has been in a Redskin uniform he has had some type of injury. Now he's coming off MAJOR shoulder surgery. Time to turn the page!

For the record, we can free just as much cap room by cutting Collins as cutting Brunell. Brunell's salary is far higher, but so is his release fee.

Who do you suggest we bring in to learn an admittedly complicated system? We have a guy who last year completed 63% of his passes for almost 7 yards an attempt. That's not going to be easy to improve on in the open market.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Right--because throwing it deep and avoiding the rush are the only two qualities that make a good QB.

Anybody got Ryan Leaf's number?

For the record, we can free just as much cap room by cutting Collins as cutting Brunell. Brunell's salary is far higher, but so is his release fee.

Who do you suggest we bring in to learn an admittedly complicated system? We have a guy who last year completed 63% of his passes for almost 7 yards an attempt. That's not going to be easy to improve on in the open market.

Stats don't tell the real story. ESPECIALLLY W/ BRUNELL. If you want to keep around a guy who throws predictable 5 yard dink and dunk passes to the sidelines than fine. Let's pray JC does not get hurt. Just ask yourself this question. Could Brunell do what Jeff Garcia did this past year? And PLEASE don't bring up 05 cause we all know the defense and Portis carried us during that stretch. I still can't get over the 41 yards passing against TB.

[SmootSmack]

I like Brunell but I think he should go personally. For his sake mainly. He's had a solid career and doesn't need to deal with all the negative bull directed his way all the time by fans here.

[redsk1]

I'm all for the skins getting a little younger. The question is how are we going to get younger when we have only 1 top pick in the 2007 Draft. I've been an advocate of accumulating more picks this year if the opportunity is there and it makes sense. How many "young" talented guys can we pick up in FA? 1 or 2.

I agree w/ cutting either Daniels or Wynn? They would not be starters anywhere else. Only keep Brunell if he takes a pay cut. He's making starter $ and right now he's no more than a backup.

I'd like to keep Springs b/c I consider him a core guy. Let's try to restructure and take a gamble on him. We don't have too many more options in the secondary, even if we pick up a FA corner. When healthy SS is a top tier CB.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Stats don't tell the real story. ESPECIALLLY W/ BRUNELL. If you want to keep around a guy who throws predictable 5 yard dink and dunk passes to the sidelines than fine. Let's pray JC does not get hurt. Just ask yourself this question. Could Brunell do what Jeff Garcia did this past year? And PLEASE don't bring up 05 cause we all know the defense and Portis carried us during that stretch. I still can't get over the 41 yards passing against TB.

Fine, we get it. Stats matter except when talking about Brunell. He's different cause we don't like him. Okay guy, great argument.

He could do for us what Garcia did last year. Question is: can the Redskins be the team Philadelphia was last year.

TAFKAS makes a great point though. If you are Mark Brunell, do you really want to stay around and risk having to put up with the crap from the fans for another season?

[That Guy]

if brunell had gotten a 2mill a year contract, he wouldn't get nearly as much hate. that 43$mill tag on his signing set expectations way too high though, and while he's not total crap, he hasn't really been a 6mill/year man either.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Fine, we get it. Stats matter except when talking about Brunell. He's different cause we don't like him. Okay guy, great argument.

He could do for us what Garcia did last year. Question is: can the Redskins be the team Philadelphia was last year.

TAFKAS makes a great point though. If you are Mark Brunell, do you really want to stay around and risk having to put up with the crap from the fans for another season?

Stats don't mean a damn thing if you can't get your team in the end zone. Get your team in the end zone, move the chains and convert on 3rd down. Brunell failed in all of these areas. So this is why I think Collins should be 2nd string or let Brunell and Collins battle for #2.

I never said I did not like Mark Brunell. Personally I like Mark Brunell alot. I think some of the fans and local media have treated him like shit. He's a stand up guy and we all know he's good in the locker room. That was never my point. It's his on the field performance. If we cut him tomorrow how many teams in the NFL would pick him up? Probably nobody. Same with Wynn. Springs and Daniels should come back but both are not full time players anymore. Springs just can't stay healthy. We can't count on him. It's just time to move on. But because of the lack of quality depth and draft picks most or all will be back.

[GoSkins!]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I like Brunell but I think he should go personally. For his sake mainly. He's had a solid career and doesn't need to deal with all the negative bull directed his way all the time by fans here.

I agree with this. I always liked Brunell, still do. I think that the biggest problem that he faces is that the fans see him as a guy who is over the hill and sliding down fast and he sees himself as a guy who still has some juice left in the tank.

IMO he needs to go to a team with a west coast offense. He should do fine in a system like that until he gets hurt again.

Personally, I appreciate that Brunell was able to play "not to lose" in 2005. That style of play gave us the best chance with the skill we had that year (including his skill).

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

I agree with this. I always liked Brunell, still do. I think that the biggest problem that he faces is that the fans see him as a guy who is over the hill and sliding down fast and he sees himself as a guy who still has some juice left in the tank.

IMO he needs to go to a team with a west coast offense. He should do fine in a system like that until he gets hurt again.

Personally, I appreciate that Brunell was able to play "not to lose" in 2005. That style of play gave us the best chance with the skill we had that year (including his skill).

This is what happens to most football players when they come to the end. They still think they can play and maybe they can but not at the same level that made them what they were. Brunell reminded me of a poor mans Steve Young. Now he's nowhere near that level he use to play at. It happens to everybody.