For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...

[redskinsgirl]

Originally Posted by 30gut

There is so much wrong with this portion of your post its not even worth it....

Aaron Rodger has a losing record so should he and McCarthy take the 'blame' for GB's season?

Rodgers/Cassel/Cutler are in the same system w/ experienced HC/OC/QB coaches.

Its argueable if we have better 'weapons' then the Ravens, but do we have a better offensive line?

Zorn's sole responsibility has been Campbell and the passing offense? 1) Hasn't Campbell improved? Campbell was being considered for league MVP a few weeks ago.
2) A HC doesn't have a 'sole' responsibility he's worried about the whole team.
Also Zorn is installing a new offense from the very first play. All the other teams you mentioned have veteran OC that brought their proven offenses scheme with them; Zorn is installing a new system with a new OC.

Clearly you're comparing apples and grapes here

Iagree.

Aaron Rodgers team is sitting at at 5-9 and Cutler 8-6(one more win and one less loss then Campbell) Those QBs had an easier schedule and they aren't too much better than Campbell.

Rivers and Brees have outplay Cambpell and most QBs this season and their teams aren't going to the playoffs.

Like I said in another post their are about 4 teams whose QBs played worse then Cambpell this season are on going to the playoffs. Three of those teams only have three lossess or less.

Even with Collins at the helm last season skins still couldn't make it out the first round of the playoffs. The problem with the skins is way deeper than QB.

It takes more than a great/good QB to make the playoffs and win the superbowl.

[Dblock804]

All you JC lovers can have him. He is so gone. The only team he will ever start for is Washington. The man has no touch on the ball. Zorn's done as well. The Rams and Cincy give me a flippin brake.

[maroonandblack30]

1. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's' fault that Cooley fumbled on the first drive
2. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's fault that Sellers handed the ball the Bungles at the goal line.
3. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's fault that Smoot can't make a tackle on 3rd and 8 to actually give the Redskins a legit shot at winning.

Firing Zorn would be a panic move... starting over every year isn't how you build a winner.

[irish]

Originally Posted by redskinsgirl

Iagree.

Aaron Rodgers team is sitting at at 5-9 and Cutler 8-6(one more win and one less loss then Campbell) Those QBs had an easier schedule and they aren't too much better than Campbell.

Rivers and Brees have outplay Cambpell and most QBs this season and their teams aren't going to the playoffs.

Like I said in another post their are about 4 teams whose QBs played worse then Cambpell this season are on going to the playoffs. Three of those teams only have three lossess or less.

Even with Collins at the helm last season skins still couldn't make it out the first round of the playoffs. The problem with the skins is way deeper than QB.

It takes more than a great/good QB to make the playoffs and win the superbowl.

Bottom line, teams with 3 losses or less dont have QBs that played worse than JC.

I do agree that the Skins problems are deeper than QB.

[irish]

Originally Posted by maroonandblack30

1. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's' fault that Cooley fumbled on the first drive
2. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's fault that Sellers handed the ball the Bungles at the goal line.
3. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's fault that Smoot can't make a tackle on 3rd and 8 to actually give the Redskins a legit shot at winning.

Firing Zorn would be a panic move... starting over every year isn't how you build a winner.

The best post I have seen yet. I couldnt agree more.

[maroonandblack30]

If Snyder fires Zorn we are entering Raider/Al Davis territory.... what legit coach is ever going to want to coach here?

[SirClintonPortis]

Oh, comparions. Here's some more then.
Redskins have a better ranked defense, but the lack of a pass rush(21 sacks) and a recent propensity to giving up big plays does not make it top tier. Falcons protect their rookie very well(14 sacks given up) and are a little better in getting to the QB(28 sacks). Flacco is sacked more times(25), but that's still less than the 32 Jason has. Dolphins are in a similar boat as the Ravens, but they have 6 MORE sacks than the Ravens.

Also, I would say that the coaches you listed aren't rookieish as Zorn. Sparano and Smith have coordinator experience and Harbaugh coached Special Teams and Defensive backs at different times in Philly.

[irish]

Originally Posted by maroonandblack30

If Snyder fires Zorn we are entering Raider/Al Davis territory.... what legit coach is ever going to want to coach here?

None. In fact I'm not sure there are any that want to come here now.

[redskinsgirl]

Originally Posted by irish

Bottom line, teams with 3 losses or less dont have QBs that played worse than JC.

I do agree that the Skins problems are deeper than QB.

Actually they do have QBs that have played worse than JC and have three losses or less.

[Joe Kidd]

Everyone looks at two spots when a team is losing, head coach and QB. That is certainly understandable but it's not considering the many other issues this team has right now. Yes it all starts with Zorn, but can anyone deny that he hasn't done a good job with Campbell this year? I hope Zorn gets the chance to right this ship but with Snyder you just never know. I think Zorn has too much on his plate and he needs to quit play calling duties or bring in a QB coach. He seems to be drowning right now.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

and are the only team with the same running system as last year with a stud RB. The excuses about Campbell being "young" and needing to "learn" is a huge load of BS... and Zorn's sole responsibility this year has been Campbell and the passing offense which happens to be the absolute worst facet of the team... anyone??

We do not have the same running system. We're using the same terminology but its not the same system.

Installing a new running game isn't difficult. As far a 'stud' RB goes I would take the combo of Turner/Norwood or McGehee/McLain/Rice over Portis.
Both teams have better offensive lines.

Everyone knows that it takes 2-3 years to master the WCO, so Campbell is ahead of the learning curve.

[PennSkinsFan]

Listen, JC deserves some blame. The lack of a second receiver deserves blame. The pathetic offensive lien deserves blame. The play calling deserves blame. The Zorn/Portis situation deserves blame. The fact that players quit deserves blame. The fact this team is and not close to playing at a NYG, PITT, level is reality.

But to say it is all JC, or all Zorn, or all this. It is only one thing folks. Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder created this team, created this atmosphere. They deserve the blame.

Good bring in a new QB, bring in a new Coach, and what are you going to get? As long as these two idiots are calling the shots, you will have more of the same. This is 8 years of frustration folks, 8 years.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

Wow... have you not been paying attention this year at all?? I think on a weekly basis it is made fact that our running scheme was COMPLETELY unchanged from last year!! Ignorance?? Really??

You are right about one thing ... THAT running game, which Zorn had nothing to do with (other than deciding NOT to change it), has been the reason we have won at all this year

deciding not to change the running game was a good first move by coach zorn.

deciding to pound the ball early in the season (CP led league in carries thru 8 weeks) to give time for the passing offense to come together was a good coaching decision.

the boys coming off a bye week (yeah so were we i know) really came with a gameplan on O and D and neither blache or zorn has made adjustments yet. this is a copy cat league and teams will see what others have done to you that is sucessfull and do it to you until you prove you can stop it. we havent yet and its been 5 weeks now.

IMO our lack of proper personnel moves has hurt us (which is easier said then done thoo):

Our o line has been our bread and butter years past but we still should have started developing young talent to wait in the wings. (some complain about the lack of drafting O line guys in the first 3 rounds. well then we wouldnt have landry, rogers or the late great ST = all great 1st round picks, or even cooley or mcintosh)(also we tried getting davis from the cards awhile back but he signed with the boys)(we let dockery go for the obvious reasons, maybe we shouldnt have)

We have never had a real wrecking ball at or near the line of scrimmage on D. (we tried to get briggs, while hes a great player hes not the wrecking ball of havoc i want)

Our receivers are servicable, not great. we've had these guys for a while now. (we tried with taylor jacobs, ARE and lloyd and that didnt work, now weve tried with our 3 2nd round picks who hopefully will work out)

We dont have an elite qb, not many teams do. Without an elite qb you really need an awesome team around him to be a contender. (weve tried to find him with 2 first round picks this decade in ramsey and JC)

Point is i think we are trying, its just hard. now it is going to be even harder with our bread and butter of an O line on the decline. we really missed our window of success with these guys being in their prime the past 5 years. we tried adding skilled guys around them (portis, moss, cooley) but it just didnt work out. time to rebuild the O line so that we can again look for the right mix of skilled position players to make it work.

rant over sorry about that. sorry to take a "coach zorn" quote and go off.

go skins!!

[MTK]

Another HC/QB change is going to keep this team spinning it's wheels. I really hope we don't go down that route yet again.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

I want to take exception to one part of the logic here. This argumentation here lays the blame on the offense and says nothing about the defense

Before anyone jumps up and down and screams about the Skins being a "Top 10 defense" this year, understand that stats like that provide comfort only to losing teams. Any team that is 10-4 now and comfortably in the playoffs, is not looking at - nor does it care - where it ranks on total defense.

In THREE games this year (Cowboys, Ravens, Bengals) the Skins were in position to win/tie the game in the 4th quarter and the opposition took possession of the ball in the opposition's end of the field. What was needed was a "three-and-out"; the Skins could even have lived with giving up a first down and then forcing a punt. But NO...

In all three games, the opposition offense took the ball and ran off between 12 and 15 plays and ate up most of the clock - - and in the Bengals and Ravens game they scored at the end of that big drive. [Can't recall what happened at the end of the 4th quarter Cowboys' drive when Barber carried the ball about a zillion times in a row.]

The defense - players and coaches but mostly the players - had the ball run down their throats or they gave up a pass over the middle and didn't make a tackle on third and long to allow those drives to continue - - and continue - - and continue.

"Top 10 defenses" make things happen when it really matters; and what they make happen is not allowing a drive to consume 7 minutes of the fourth quarter and end in a score for the other guys.

Oh, by the way, the same Skins defense has been so good in first quarters recently that in the last three games the Skins have been outscored in the first quarter 38-0. That means the defense has given up six scores in the first quarter of the last three games. That STINKS!

In the second and third quarters, they don't allow a lot of yards; that's what keeps them in the "Top 10". Whoop - de - damned - dooo!

When it matters - - at the beginning of the game when it is 0-0 on the scorebard and in the fourth quarter when they need a STOP - - the defense has not done the job. You can fawn all over the players and vote for them to go to the Pro Bowl and sniff their jocks, but they haven't gotten the job done when it mattered this season. Deal with it!

Jason Campbell, Clinton Portis - - name your favorite Redskins' offensive player from the past - - can't do a whole lot when they spend half of the fourth quarter sitting on their asses on the sidelines waiting to get the ball. When it matters, this defensive unit has not delivered the goods.

Coaches to blame? Somewhat. Players to blame? More than coaching. The roster of the team itself to blame? Somewhat.

There needs to be a major overhaul to this roster. Of course, that was needed last year too and the overhaul that happened was that the Skins kept all of their draft picks on the roster even though only one of them can play right now. That's not a positive step. And that should give fans the biggest pause...

The roster needs an overhaul - - but do the people in charge of assembling the roster actually know what it needed here and where to look to find pieces to the puzzle to make it better? Recent evidence does not suggest that they do...

Thank you! I have been saying this since preseason and people get all upset with me on this sight. Our defensive statistical ranking is smoke and mirrors. Our defense is average to below average at best, but not great.

Your point about keeping players that do not belong just because we drafted them has also has been a huge issue since Snyderratto took over the team. Justin Tyron (4th round) and Durant Brooks (6th round) did not play well enough this summer and preseason to make this roster, but yet they were kept on, while others that were better were discarded. Moves that later were proved to be mistakes. That is an ego issue with Snyderratto. I can not believe we spent a 4th on Tyron. Swing and a MISS.....