Redskins 2013 Salary Cap Status

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

You dont need stats to see the offense was simply much better when Garcon was on the field. If you didnt see it, you werent watching.

You know, I absolutely agree with you. Considering the initial spark and excitement he helped create in the first game with that long TD -- splitting and outrunning the Saints defense, the game tying touchdown in the Baltimore game, the incredible grab and run in the memorable Thanksgiving game -- again splitting and outrunning the defense, his performance in the seven game win streak during which he put up big yardage with clutch catches and out produced every other receiver on the team, I thought the assertions that:

Originally Posted by The Goat

Garcon made little to no impact in several games (outside the ones he missed completely), getting yardage in junk minutes but otherwise being very quiet[;]

Originally Posted by The Goat

… the offensive production wasn't hugely different over the course of the season, with or without Garcon[;]

Originally Posted by The Goat

… as the season wore on Garcon was quiet for long stretches[;]

and

Originally Posted by The Goat

Garcon is eating up an enormous amount of cap space and has yet to prove he's worth it

… were self-evidently stupid.

However, since I “know absolutely nothing about the game football”, because I am a “moron” for thinking Garcon is a potentially elite receiver, and it would be sheer “idiocy” to believe that Garcon was well worth his cap impact, I just wanted to see how the stats stacked up in light of my moronic and idiotic assertion that Garcon’s in-game impact has comfortably exceeded his cap impact.

After doing so, I feel comforted that my complete lack of football knowledge didn’t stop me from appreciating what a difference maker Garcon is in this offense. Sorry if my pedantic investigation of facts and figures may have bored those who are not as football impaired as me.

[Chico23231]

No i got you Joe, i saw the context of the last couple pages.

I just think sometimes put the stats aside (isnt directed at you Joe, this is for everybody) and look at the the chemistry between the team and offensive flow of the game. There is no doubt an impact in playcalling and the defense was more on their heels. Garcon is a guy defensive cordinators have to account for on every play. The affect on the field was night and day imo.

[Meks]

Hatters gone Hatt..

Garcon is a beast. Point blank.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by The Goat

One point difference is markedly higher? As a contrast, the defense limited opponents to several points less in the 2nd half of the season compared to the 1st half, which was my whole point to begin with. Someone posted or linked those stats too after the season, it was a stark contrast. Again, and for the last time, Garcon began suiting up when the defense improved and that explains the wins/losses by a wide margin.

Garcon was the leading receiver in games played because he was targeted often. Simple as that. But he still didn't produce a lot given the targets. Again, it's in the numbers. Tana scored twice as many TDs on fewer receptions. And as the season wore on Garcon was quiet for long stretches.

The legend of Garcon as an elite WR, though hasn't broke 1000 yards with arguably the greatest QB in history throwing to him, is reaching epic proportions in Redskins history. Well, really just among a moron or two.

To the best of my memory, Gaffney was out on a drug thing last year that our FO knew about way before we did, and presumably let him walk because of it. Also to the best of my memory, Garcon hasn't ever produced a better season than Gaffney's last with us. Again, and for the last time, the forest through the trees picture is that Garcon is eating up an enormous amount of cap space and has yet to prove he's worth it. Saying otherwise is just idiocy.

Goat you're very bad at thinking.

[That Guy]

yep. we've made some bad signings, but garcon ain't one of them.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Goat you're very bad at thinking.

Love it.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Goat you're very bad at thinking.

Or maybe he excels at over-thinking?

Like others have already said, watch the games, it doesn't take a genius to see the impact Garcon had when he was playing.

[The Goat]

I'll leave it this way: if the defense hadn't dramatically improved in the 2nd half of the season, our win/loss improvement would NOT have happened either, period. Focusing on Garcon instead as the reason for improvement is asinine. He "added" appx on point per game, while the defense held opponents to several points less in the 2nd half of the season compared to the 1st half.

The man-crushing on this guy is beyond me. The offense scored nearly as many points without him. Was it a different looking offense? Sure. Maybe. I don't really care. Points win games the last time I checked.

If anything London should be the focus here. He allegedly took a much larger role in scheming through the 2nd half of the season, and he played extremely well as the foot/ankle injury healed.

And again, the notion Garcon has shown anything to be an elite WR up to this point, deserving of his contract, is just absurd. He scored 4 touchdowns and was quiet for long stretches in the games he played. You sorcerers who put all the offensive improvement on him (that 1 point per game lol) are deep into the magic on this one.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I'll leave it this way: if the defense hadn't dramatically improved in the 2nd half of the season, our win/loss improvement would NOT have happened either, period. Focusing on Garcon instead as the reason for improvement is asinine. He "added" appx on point per game, while the defense held opponents to several points less in the 2nd half of the season compared to the 1st half.

The man-crushing on this guy is beyond me. The offense scored nearly as many points without him. Was it a different looking offense? Sure. Maybe. I don't really care. Points win games the last time I checked.

If anything London should be the focus here. He allegedly took a much larger role in scheming through the 2nd half of the season, and he played extremely well as the foot/ankle injury healed.

And again, the notion Garcon has shown anything to be an elite WR up to this point, deserving of his contract, is just absurd. He scored 4 touchdowns and was quiet for long stretches in the games he played. You sorcerers who put all the offensive improvement on him (that 1 point per game lol) are deep into the magic on this one.

If you arguing that Garcon is not an elite receiver and not deserving of an elite receiver's contract, you have a point and I somewhat agree with you. However if you are arguing that Garcon is not a difference maker, I completely disagree with you and you can see it in how defenses adjust to Garcon allowing the other receivers more space.

Garcon is not elite, but neither is Mike Wallace and he received an elite receivers pay. Garcon is a difference maker at receiver.

[MTK]

If Garcon can stay healthy I see him catching over 80 passes in this offense. Easy. If you take his numbers from his last 6 games last year it projects to 88-1266-8. I'd call that elite production if he can put up those types of numbers.

[Meks]

Here's to hoping his foot is at 100% .. the guy is pretty fun to watch and important to this offense.. no one else on the team, with the exception of moss at times, made the grabs he did and had RAC success like he did.. he's our best recieiver and IMO prolly top 15 in the league

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

If Garcon can stay healthy I see him catching over 80 passes in this offense. Easy. If you take his numbers from his last 6 games last year it projects to 88-1266-8. I'd call that elite production if he can put up those types of numbers.

Agreed. It's what we all want to see.

In fact, that kind of season would make Garcon a value signing/player for us.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Agreed. It's what we all want to see.

In fact, that kind of season would make Garcon a value signing/player for us.

He probably would have done that last year if not for his injury. Can't fault him for getting hurt.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

He probably would have done that last year if not for his injury. Can't fault him for getting hurt.

Well hopefully Garcon won't have to play the what if game. Because both him and Fred Davis need to stay healthy for this offense to be almost unstoppable, (of course the other injured star needs to be healthy too). I have always held on to the concept that being elite at your possession means you stay healthy. I honestly do not believe the Redskins have any elite players yet. I see a lot of players that have elite talent, (RG3, Trent, Morris, Garcon and Davis to name a few) just not elite production at this point in their careers. But I hold elite to mean you are the best of the best.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I'll leave it this way: if the defense hadn't dramatically improved in the 2nd half of the season, our win/loss improvement would NOT have happened either, period. Focusing on Garcon instead as the reason for improvement is asinine. He "added" appx on point per game, [No ... as to the offense, there was a 4+ point differential. Apparently, the term "Reading is Fundamental" was not something emphasized in your schooling.] while the defense held opponents to several points less in the 2nd half of the season compared to the 1st half.

The man-crushing on this guy is beyond me. The offense scored nearly as many points without him. [WRONG - See above, "the offense" scored 20% less when he wasn't in the game. Geez, you know, there are only so many times I can post the Dr. Cox video]. Was it a different looking offense? Sure. Maybe. I don't really care. Points win games the last time I checked.

If anything London should be the focus here. He allegedly took a much larger role in scheming through the 2nd half of the season, and he played extremely well as the foot/ankle injury healed.

And again, the notion Garcon has shown anything to be an elite WR up to this point, deserving of his contract, is just absurd. He scored 4 touchdowns and was quiet for long stretches in the games he played. You sorcerers who put all the offensive improvement on him (that 1 point per game lol) are deep into the magic on this one.

And I'll leave it this way:

You can move your rhetorical target around as much as you want (Garcon has an inflated cap impact, no real impact on offensive production, his TD production was less than other receivers); the bottom line is this - Mr. "Points win games" - the offense produced an additional 4+ points/game when Garcon played. Thus, the offense produced 20% more points when Garcon played than when he didn't. Period.

Without that point differential, and conceeding the defense's vastly improved play, the Skins lose the NYG game (a one point victory) and the Baltimore game (a three point victory)(By the way, the margin of victory in BOTH those games was provided, in part, thanks to a Garcon TD). Without those wins, the Skins don't win the NFC East championship. Thus, even with the improved defensive play, no Garcon, no championship. Double exclamation point.

As much as you want to say others are putting "all the offensive improvement on him", you are blatantly, obtusely, idiotically, irrationally, stupidly ignorantly, foolishly, baselessly and moronically denying (1) the existence of any difference in the team's offensive production when Garcon played as opposed to when he didn't; and (2) the significant role Garcon played in the Championship run.