Goodbye Kyle?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

... But you've got guys in sales, marketing, etc. who are just difficult people to work with/for. And, look I'm not saying they're the leaks, I'm just saying there are people in that building that I just don't trust.

That is disheartening to hear. As I understood it, Cerrato encouraged these types of attitudes within the organization through his own blame shifting ways. When he was fired, and I praised the "culture change" that I believed Mike Shanahan and B. Allen were bringing to the organization. Unfortunately, whether half truths or not, it appears there are some elements of truth to some of the various leaks about Kyle & Mike's motives.

Thus, while it seems obvious that Mike brought in "team" players and changed the culture of the locker room, it appears the deeper cancer within the organization has not been cured. In light of recent disclosures about Kyle and Mike, it appears that individuals who lack integrity, seek to shift blame and protect themselves by stabbing others in the back are still able to ply their through a lack of integrity. Certainly, Mike and Kyle have both been, at a minimum, disingenuous about their motives and by doing so demonstrate an organizational lack of integrity ("Hey, I am trying to be honest with you. I don't normally do that.").

My question is ... does DS know he has untrustworthy people working for him? Does he care? For these people, is all that matters to Dan that they "produce" in their specific line of responsibility (i.e. they are great marketers but backstabbing, lying SOB's)?

Mike may have fixed the integrity of the locker room, but it appears he has continued business as usual throughout the rest of the institutional structure. If true, this is on Snyder. The lack of institutional integrity will torpedo any organization and, ultimately, ensuring the Skin's institutional integrity is the responsibility of the Snyder.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

That is disheartening to hear. As I understood it, Cerrato encouraged these types of attitudes within the organization through his own blame shifting ways. When he was fired, and I praised the "culture change" that I believed Mike Shanahan and B. Allen were bringing to the organization. Unfortunately, whether half truths or not, it appears there are some elements of truth to some of the various leaks about Kyle & Mike's motives.

Thus, while it seems obvious that Mike brought in "team" players and changed the culture of the locker room, it appears the deeper cancer within the organization has not been cured. In light of recent disclosures about Kyle and Mike, it appears that individuals who lack integrity, seek to shift blame and protect themselves by stabbing others in the back are still able to ply their through a lack of integrity. Certainly, Mike and Kyle have both been, at a minimum, disingenuous about their motives and by doing so demonstrate an organizational lack of integrity ("Hey, I am trying to be honest with you. I don't normally do that.").

My question is ... does DS know he has untrustworthy people working for him? Does he care? For these people, is all that matters to Dan that they "produce" in their specific line of responsibility (i.e. they are great marketers but backstabbing, lying SOB's)?

Mike may have fixed the integrity of the locker room, but it appears he has continued business as usual throughout the rest of the institutional structure. If true, this is on Snyder. The lack of institutional integrity will torpedo any organization and, ultimately, ensuring the Skin's institutional integrity is the responsibility of the Snyder.

Amazingly it actually is better even outside the locker room, just shows how bad it once was.

I think Snyder is aware that some people in his organization, while great at their assigned jobs, probably aren't going to win any congeniality awards. But he may not know the lengths they go to.

I've been approached a handful of times about joining that organization, and every time I meet with them I come away thinking it's really an every man for himself mentality there.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Amazingly it actually is better even outside the locker room, just shows how bad it once was.

I think Snyder is aware that some people in his organization, while great at their assigned jobs, probably aren't going to win any congeniality awards. But he may not know the lengths they go to.

I've been approached a handful of times about joining that organization, and every time I meet with them I come away thinking it's really an every man for himself mentality there.

<sigh> That just royally sucks. Until that changes, it seems to me the best we can hope for is mediocrity - doesn't matter who coaches the team.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

<sigh> That just royally sucks. Until that changes, it seems to me the best we can hope for is mediocrity - doesn't matter who coaches the team.

It's a chicken or egg situation in some ways. These issues, at the very least, get buried when we're winning. But at the same time they play a big role in why we don't win more often

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's a chicken or egg situation in some ways. These issues, at the very least, get buried when we're winning. But at the same time they play a big role in why we don't win more often

Why doesnt someone recognize this and take action? Whose the responsible party to do that?


How come Im starting to feel like Shanny returns next year?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Why doesnt someone recognize this and take action? Whose the responsible party to do that?


How come Im starting to feel like Shanny returns next year?

I don't think Shanny comes back next year, but I think he and Snyder are in a game of chicken right now

As to the first part of the question, I don't know. Ultimately it's about deciding if you want to be a football team or a business. I mean every football team is a business. Some, like the Steelers, have historically been able to make a winning football team the primary driver of their business. But when you lose, you have to take other measures..and that's when it gets uncomfortable for all parties.

The first thing I would do is make Bruce Allen the President of the team. He's got the know how to do it. Put him firmly in charge of the organization, all aspects of it and let him hire the people he wants to make the team and the business better.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't think Shanny comes back next year, but I think he and Snyder are in a game of chicken right now

As to the first part of the question, I don't know. Ultimately it's about deciding if you want to be a football team or a business. I mean every football team is a business. Some, like the Steelers, have historically been able to make a winning football team the primary driver of their business. But when you lose, you have to take other measures..and that's when it gets uncomfortable for all parties.

The first thing I would do is make Bruce Allen the President of the team. He's got the know how to do it. Put him firmly in charge of the organization, all aspects of it and let him hire the people he wants to make the team and the business better.

Totally agree.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The first thing I would do is make Bruce Allen the President of the team. He's got the know how to do it. Put him firmly in charge of the organization, all aspects of it and let him hire the people he wants to make the team and the business better.

So is he inclined to hire M. Brown for GM or to bring in other people to interview for the job?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't think Shanny comes back next year, but I think he and Snyder are in a game of chicken right now

As to the first part of the question, I don't know. Ultimately it's about deciding if you want to be a football team or a business. I mean every football team is a business. Some, like the Steelers, have historically been able to make a winning football team the primary driver of their business. But when you lose, you have to take other measures..and that's when it gets uncomfortable for all parties.

The first thing I would do is make Bruce Allen the President of the team. He's got the know how to do it. Put him firmly in charge of the organization, all aspects of it and let him hire the people he wants to make the team and the business better.

Thanks for the insight. And I agree with making BA president.

It just seem like Shanny and Dan egos are way to big and its unprofessional imo. I mean this is some female stuff. Bruce Allen seems level headed enough to get between these two and come to a good decision.