Redskins' Dan Snyder Announces Creation of Foundation to Help Native Americans

[ICantGoAnother20yrsOfCrap]

Originally Posted by saden1

Hate is such a weak word...I'm fine with him owning a team with a name other than Redskins.

The name deserves to be treated with honor...put it to rest before its too late.

Good God! Are we Europe on the eve of 1939? The name does deserve to be treated with honor. You don't do that by appeasing the wolves and leaving it to slaughter.

"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender,"

Okay maybe that's a bit dramatic, but I want Snyder to do three things, keep his mits out of football decisions, write the checks, and keep the Redskins name. With CAPS if possible.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by saden1

Entertaining fallacious argument. Patent and Trademark Office is on the case and when they are done the majority opinion will live on in purgatory.

I wonder if the little one will live up to "We'll never change [it]. It's that simple. NEVER -- you can use caps" once he loses the trademark.

As I said, in this age of political correctness where tolerance of an opinion has morphed into a requirement for acceptance/approval of the opinion, "the problem" is that a minority can impose their will upon a majority as the patent office and you comment that the "majority opinion will live on in purgatory" demonstrate.

So some govt. functionaries got their panties in bunch because someone, somewhere might be offended, that doesn't change the stupidity of their actions, the unreasonableness of their opinion and the correctness of my initial assertion.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

As I said, in this age of political correctness where tolerance of an opinion has morphed into a requirement for acceptance/approval of the opinion, "the problem" is that a minority can impose their will upon a majority as the patent office and you comment that the "majority opinion will live on in purgatory" demonstrate.

So some govt. functionaries got their panties in bunch because someone, somewhere might be offended, that doesn't change the stupidity of their actions, the unreasonableness of their opinion and the correctness of my initial assertion.

Political correctness? You're above such lowbrow dialog.

I oppose the rights of people to be derogatory, racist, sexist, and homophobic and I welcome the prospect of people airing their grievances and letting the courts/arbitrators decide. If this process doesn't appeal to you then I am afraid America is no longer for you.

[over the mountain]

kind of a side track but i was sitting with my brother watching the Os game and we were talking sports and he said that he sees the skins changing their name in 3 years or so and he might not stay a washington dc football fan.

weird to think about changing teams but if the DS isnt going anywhere anytime soon and if someone just really hates what the DS has done and represents then ... i could see people choosing not to support the washington zards or whatever they will be called.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

kind of a side track but i was sitting with my brother watching the Os game and we were talking sports and he said that he sees the skins changing their name in 3 years or so and he might not stay a washington dc football fan. weird to think about changing teams but if the DS isnt going anywhere anytime soon and if someone just really hates what the DS has done and represents then ... i could see people choosing not to support the washington zards or whatever they will be called.

Sorry thats effing weak. Question why is he offended now? Strange that someone would be fan all this time of a racist, insensative franchise...

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Sorry thats effing weak. Question why is he offended now? Strange that someone would be fan all this time of a racist, insensative franchise...

it has nothing to do with any sensitivity to the name .. its actually quite the opposite.

if and when the skins do change names, I could see people like him seeing it as an opportunity to cut ties. really it comes down to not liking the owner, fed ex field and not really associating with the DC yuppy/stuffy fan base vs the ravens who have a solid well run organization and down to earth fans.

for me .. going to skins games at fed ex really kinda sucks on all levels (cost, crappy parking, lots of bad seats, fans telling you to sit down when the skins are on D, etc..). i dont think i could switch. personally i dont think he would actually be able to go through with it either.

but if the skins continue to suck over the next few years and then have to change names .. i could see a noticeable segment of fans leaving the B&G.

i just thought it was interesting that he would even talk about an escape route. he is no fair weather skins fan.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The problem, of course, is twofold:

(1) The mere fact that you hold, and others share, an opinion does not mean it is reasonable. Further, unreasonable opinions may be entitled to a respectful "hearing" if presented in a civil manner, but the opinion itself is not due any "respect" - if by respect you mean some level of acceptance.

(2) Many people holding minority opinions seem to believe that they are only heard or respected if their opinions are accepted and acted upon by the majority.

By every poll taken, the vast majority of the Native American community does not take issue with Skins name. Those who do have been heard. Respectfully so. The minority is not, however, now entitled to have their opinions accepted or acted upon out of "respect".


"I have heard what you said and understand the basis for your opinion. Nonetheless, I disagree with it and, with all due respect to you as a person, I believe that (1)your opinion that cannibalism should be an acceptable societal norm is idiotic and barbaric and (2) you are wrong for holding that opinion. Further, the majority of people have the same opinion as I do and we will punish you if you try to eat any one.

The Native American who object have been heard, their arguments understood but simply not accepted by the majority of NA people, much less by the majority of non-NA people. Nothing more is required. Thank you. Period.

Appologies in advance if this is more suited for Debating with the enemy:

Fair enough but keep in mind I did preface it with the condition that the view can't be "hog wash." Though it would be an extreme example, just because pedophiles are of a minority and have a view that their activities should be accepted doesn't mean that we need to look into protecting them from majority rule.

On the other hand as much as it pains me to admit the proposition that the name Redskin is a racial slur is certainly a valid argument. Myself and many other Redskin fans certainly don't see it that way but its certainly not entirely without merit. After all if you were in a competitive debate with a million dollar payout upon winning which side would you rather take?

Bill of Rights Institute: Majority Rule versus Minority Rights | Bill of Rights Institute

The Founders had great respect for the will of the majority, but also understood that, as James Madison wrote in Federalist No. 10, “the great danger in republics is that the majority will not respect the rights of minority.” President Thomas Jefferson proclaimed in his first inaugural address, “All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate which would be oppression.”
Independent judicial protection of rights by judges who are appointed and serve for life helps to ensure justice and the protection of individual rights. Citizens can also practice the civic values of consideration and respect in their daily lives in order to further ensure that the rights of the minority are respected.

This certainly doesn't suggest that the Redskins need to automatically change their name but at the very least it does provide justification for the team name to have its 'day in court.'

[saden1]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

it has nothing to do with any sensitivity to the name .. its actually quite the opposite.

if and when the skins do change names, I could see people like him seeing it as an opportunity to cut ties. really it comes down to not liking the owner, fed ex field and not really associating with the DC yuppy/stuffy fan base vs the ravens who have a solid well run organization and down to earth fans.

for me .. going to skins games at fed ex really kinda sucks on all levels (cost, crappy parking, lots of bad seats, fans telling you to sit down when the skins are on D, etc..). i dont think i could switch. personally i dont think he would actually be able to go through with it either.

but if the skins continue to suck over the next few years and then have to change names .. i could see a noticeable segment of fans leaving the B&G.

i just thought it was interesting that he would even talk about an escape route. he is no fair weather skins fan.

A name change would definitely create an instant opportunity for me to emotionally detach myself from Snyder and his renamed team. The Redskins would in essence become a team I use to love and support that moved to another city. I would be free from Snyder and the shitty deal he has been offering fans since he became an owner.

There is no shame in wanting more from your team and moving on doesn't make you less of a fan. I will always be a Redskins fan much in the same way I will always be a Sonics fan.

[MTK]

Redskins nickname issue too divisive for sudden change - Sporting News

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Redskins nickname issue too divisive for sudden change - Sporting News

If true this would certainly go a long way towards making the case of the name not being a racial slur, at least in terms of its orgins:

"There are some that give the term Redskin a negative connotation— to indicate that it was created by the white man to offend the Indians— but in reality the term ‘Redskins’ came from the Indians,” he said. “And they referred to themselves oftentimes— in treaty negotiations, in meetings with the early settlers —as ‘Redskins.’ So it’s not a term that the white man created; it’s actually a term that the Indians themselves created.

Regardless always able to count on good stuff from Ross Tucker.

[mlmdub130]

Edit; didn't see the article already posted, my bad. Probably time to update my version of Tapatalk.

Really good article though.


Good read from Ross Tucker

http://beta.sportingnews.com/article...ww.google.com/