Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens

[That Guy]

i'm sorry it took me spelling it out 3 different times for you to agree to what has been blatantly obvious to everyone else. I responded to your passive apologizing towards RGIII, i'm sorry that hurts you personally. my only real point (yet again) is that it's time for RGIII to be accountable (ie put up or shut up, the sack %s etc is just evidence in support of that, which you still continue to mistake as the main point for some reason). again, i'm sorry you missed that and felt the need to drag this thread down with tangential deflection and your passive agreesive crap.

there is no revelation, there is nothing profound, the goal posts never moved. again, it's always been a message about accountability and nothing else. you're really making this a much bigger deal than it actually is.

even now you're trying to minimize, well congrats bro.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

He 's being purposely obtuse. If you spell things out, he'll just tell you "oh, that's the wrong word so it doesn't matter how you spell it."

and people accuse me of being long winded.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

tl:dr.

[Kindoy]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

Doh! lol .. I said riley seemed invisible so far this preseason. I owe you an apology Mr. Riley.

I'd consider Riley being "invisible" a positive.

I seemed to notice him all the time last year... getting beat in coverage...

[30gut]

Originally Posted by That Guy

...I responded to your passive apologizing towards RGIII, i'm sorry that hurts you personally.

Suuuure. But we'll get back to this.

my only real point (yet again) is that it's time for RGIII to be accountable (ie put up or shut up, the sack %s etc is just evidence in support of that, which you still continue to mistake as the main point for some reason). again, i'm sorry you missed that and felt the need to drag this thread down with tangential deflection and your passive agreesive crap.

I'm sorry you have such great struggles making and sticking to your point and chose to ramble around with rhetorical questions before shifting, swapping and swerving to a point which still had nothing to do with the post you responded to.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by That Guy

I responded to your passive apologizing towards RGIII,

I hope moving forward people on this forum are able to discuss QB play with an objective eye.

Kirk Cousins started off 3-5 with 1 INT and 1 fumbled snap.
I am sorry if that makes you so defensive that instead of discussing it you felt the need to respond to Kirk's performance by launching into some rhetorical defensive ramble about your view of Griffin.

The 1st unit offense didn't cross the field until 6 minutes left in the 2nd qtr. Kirk's TD in the 2 minute drill came against the Ravens 2nd unit.

Kirk also took a monster hit on a blitz and threw a bad ball to Grant that was almost picked off.

That is how Kirk started the Raven's preseason game. Those are facts.

Thankfully the offense did get going after a slow start and Kirk finished the game looking sharp.

Kirk was playing with Trent Williams at LT instead of Willie Smith (now off the team) and Kirk was going against a lesser defense in the Ravens then the Lions and had the benefit of game planning which many teams do in the 3rd preseason game (and Kirk acknowledged leading into the game). Again the above are facts.

Coming up is the part I'm sure set you off.

Imo Kirk's start against the Ravens was bad, comparable if not worse then Griffin's stint vs the Lions. If you consider that whatever you called passive apologizing? (creative label I must admit) Then so be it. By I don't back down from that view. The beginning of Kirk's Ravens game was just as bad if not worse then Griffin vs the Lions.

Moving forward I hope we can talk objectively about what happens on the field. I know you have your Griffin hang-ups and have issues with his off the field drama. But you don't need to inject it everywhere all the time. Its tiresome. If you don't want to discuss Kirk's play in that game or any of the other observations that's fine too. But you don't need my post to launch off into an anti-Griffin diatribe.

Now I'm gonna on a tangent here to attempt to help you avoid some of your assumptions about my position on Griffin.

I'm gonna repeat something that I've said many times before: Kirk runs Jay's offense better then Griffin. (save this post for your reference )
I have known and have been saying that since last year. However; when it counts on 3rd downs and snaps that take longer then 2.5s the gap isn't nearly as large as people would expect considering Kirk's experience in J's style of offense:

3rd + 6

Kirk 13/26--50% comp--4.4 YPA---1 INT--0 rushing--4 sacks--2 fumbles lost--------------46.2 QB rating

Rob 18/34--53% comp--7.5 YPA---3 INT--6 rushes--6.2 YPA---9 sacks--2 fumbles lost--40.6 QB rating

They didn't have conversions made.

3rd - 6

Kirk 16/26--62% comp--6.1 YPA--2 INT-3 rushes-2.0 YPA--0 sacks---46.6 QB rating
Rob 13/19--68% comp--6.6 YPA--1 TD-5 rushes-3.0 YPA--0 sacks---104.3 QB rating

http://sports.yahoo....12/situational/
http://sports.yahoo....12/situational/

2.6 seconds or more (via PFF):
% of throws over 2.6/Attempts.....................Comp%................ ......Sacks........................QB rating
Rob........................51%/92 atts............................53%............... .......26.............................66
Colt........................49%/54 atts............................67%............... .......15...........................106
Kirk.........................40%/78 atts...........................49%................ ........6..............................62

Now, despite the 3rd downs numbers there are skills required to be in rhythm based passing offense that Kirk is better at. I came to the conclusion last year that since Jay wasn't going to cater the offense and appeared to lack faith, desire and patience to continue grooming Griffin in his offense I thought it made more sense to trade Griffin at the end of the season/beginning of the offseason then to repeat a failed process. So again I am well aware, probably more acutely then you, of Griffin's short comings in this offense.

Cheers all the same,

[MTK]

You guys need to get a room.

[That Guy]

jeez, i don't see how any of that has anything to do with griffin being accountable for his own play. I've said that like 4 times now, I don't think it's all that hard to grasp. he hasn't played well in over two years, and i'm definitely not the only person who's thought it's put up or shut up time. I've only repeated it this many times because you keep writing responses to things that are tangential or unrelated to that.

but it's cool, whatever, have a nice day.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by That Guy

jeez, i don't see how any of that has anything to do with....

With what YOU want to talk about. Funny how that happened. Since YOU responded to my original post in this thread with a diatribe that has nothing to do with my post. Remember?

[MTK]

Guys, really

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by That Guy

griffin has looked terrible, and i'm tired of excuses. that was the original point referring specifically to you once again stating that griffin would have been crucified for that throw/hit, pointing out how kirk's stat would have looked at their worst (griffin could have played longer, but, oh yeah, he gets hurt). RGIII is not a victim of cosmic circumstance, he's a player that's having trouble doing the basic things required to be successful.

you should also stop referring to questions as rhetorical when they aren't. that's the 2nd time you've done that in 3 posts. for the record his sack rate is higher than the other QBs this year and last year, he got hit more, he's gotten hurt more. those are all facts, so i'm actually not wrong. 15.4% >> 13.2%, but i was really referring to kirk (3.9%), and i'm sure you know that, but it doesn't fit your narrative as well.

Exactly, Joe Theismann is really good at pointing out the little things a QB can do to avoid sacks, buy time and minimize the physical trauma of contact when it isn't avoidable. You would think he was directly speaking to RG3.
As for doing those little things RG3 gets an F. RG3 could have the Hogs blocking for him and he would find ways to repeatedly get himself killed. The way he contorts his body when scrambling or running leaves him overly vulnerable to injury. One has to believe these things have been pointed out
to him repeatedly yet we see no changes. In this case it appears you can't
teach an old dog new tricks, even if the dog is human and only 25.